Umbelina

I've enjoyed this recapper all season, he's often wearing a handmaid headdress, but he make excellent points and is also fair. Anyway, looks Bruce Miller joined his latest chat and answers some questions, which is kind of an awwwww. I haven't listed to the whole thing yet.

Serena, if they bothered to charge her, would just start quoting bible scripture about the handmaid having her husband's child, and how this was their religion in Gilead, and those Gilead rules all wives had to follow included holding the hands of the handmaid as she rested her head against her pelvic bone. (I always wondered about that placement frankly, was that supposed to stimulate the wife?) Anyway, she might get it on the Nick thing, but quite a few people know June was romantic with Nick, not to mention more testimony about Nick might not be good for him, and Serena is smart enough to really play that up. On the other hand she could plead for asylum, and say the only reason she's been snot to everyone in Canada is that she knew Fred would get off, and was afraid of him, or some such bullshit. My guess is that a compromise is reached, she's a criminal, but they will simply deport her back to Gilead after she has the baby, taking the baby or not will be her decision, although, since it's born on Canadian soil, there is a small chance they might keep the baby there, but since it's a boy, perhaps not. The biggest plot hole that DOES actually bother me, in spite of generally looking for the good, actually enjoying the hell of the show, and going with the flow this season about the small shit? Nick. Nick's named in that international court, broadcast and with transcripts. Nick, technically a driver, though now the Commanders know he was also an Eye, had sex with a Commander's handmaiden and probably impregnated her. (That can be iffy now that Fred's actually sired a child though.) Nick could just deny it all however, or say he was following Serena's orders, a man's word against two women? In Gilead that would probably stand...but...why haven't we seen any repercussions from that? Maybe we will. Well, that, and Gilead is still short of Commanders now.

Governments tend to cooperate around spy exchanges, which, by the way, are often held on bridges as an easy-to-defend border. I've been interested in spies for my entire life, the technicalities of geography for non-real exchanges just doesn't fuss me too much. We have no idea where they are, that was deliberate, and it does not matter for this storyline.

Yeah, they could easily just turn that Eye's truck around and drive right back over the same bridge. I'm not hung up on the Geography that much, it's a detail I don't need to know, how long did they drive to meet Joseph, where was the bridge, how long did the drive Fred around before and after he's taken into Eye's custody, blah blah...don't care. I get it's fun to nitpick the show apart on details like this, but I don't need each movement hand fed to me. We got the clues. "No man's land" is probably the disputed areas shown on the maps long long ago, which were numerous near the border. Canada and especially the USA wanted Fred gone and to get their assets back. Gilead just wanted Fred to shut the fuck up. Nick probably had orders to kill Fred in that forest anyway, or it's highly likely. Why bring a traitor back, why admit you have a commander traitor and go through the whole embarrassing trial? Easier to just kill him. The only think Nick probably changed was letting the handmaids kill Fred, he's on a wall, which is also something the Eyes would do. It all works for me. I know that I tend to be a glass half full person with this show, but it this case? The glass, for me, is 9/10's full. I'm happy. At least geography quibbles are more interesting endless "I hate June" posts.

Canada and the Eyes guard the border. During a prisoner exchange like this, it would be idiotic to not just clear the area of extra cops/patrols. We don't know what bridge this was, or where it was. The Eye's van had NO windows. I assume they passed back into Canada, simply because that's there the handmaid's cars are more likely to be. Either way, Eyes .were not going to capture those handmaids, they were there to have Fred be taken officially, which increased his fear. I loved that part. Obviously there was no fear from the women, who calmly walked back to their cars and drove home. Having Fred specifically say "Are we even in Gilead anymore?" was a huge clue to the audience. No. They were not.

From The Showrunner's mouth. So how is Gilead going to react to this? Because on their end, they thought they were getting Fred in exchange for these women. Are Commander Lawrence and Nick in trouble? My sense is that they wanted Fred gone. They don't care if Fred's back; they want him to stop talking. So as long as Fred is not talking and that he's been excised from the timeline, they're happy with that. I don't think Lawrence or Nick are ever working completely against Gilead; they're working within the area they can work in Gilead. So I think that before he went and met with June, Lawrence got this approved, that they'd be able to trade this for Fred, and there's a little bit of manipulation on his part that he has to kind of get some official reason why the Eyes took Fred at the border, but the Eyes could make anyone disappear. That's the whole idea behind Nick taking him into the woods and him not coming back - that's what happens in Gilead. And how they got rid of him is also what happens in Gilead; it's exactly what they probably would have done to him anyway. So I think if they find out, they'll be like, "Awesome, saved us a little money and time." I mean, it seems like they wanted him gone, and he's gone. If Lawrence gained a little goodwill with the Americans by doing it, awesome. That's an open line of communication that they can have. So I think that Gilead doesn't give a crap, but I think that Serena is the one you really have to worry about, or the one I am worried about. Because Serena, although she has mixed feelings about Fred, and certainly the death of your abuser is a complicated emotional thing I imagine, she also does not like to lose. And I think she would definitely feel like this is June coming into her house and taking something from her specifically, and then gloating by sending her the finger and the ring. So I think that June has definitely poked Serena, and it's gonna be very interesting to see how she decides to come back because honestly, she's actually got an easier situation because now she can use Fred without having the bother of actually having Fred around.

Very nice words about Luke. For the most part, I've liked him very much this season. I don't think we (or June) are done with him yet though. She said how much she wants to be with him and with Nicole, when she was crying to Emily, so the desire IS there. I think it might help them greatly if Emily had a heart to heart with Luke. Maybe she will.

They probably did not walk around "freely" for their own safety, and for others. They could be there on any kind of diplomat mission, still trying to get sanctions lifted, or wanting to talk with their countryman who is accused of crimes. Both would probably be allowed.

Try the EW article, it does the best job I've seen so far. (spoiler thread and media thread.) Basically, both he and Nick work within Gilead, carefully, even when supporting June, for different reasons. We don't know what Luke will do after he has a moment to come down from the shock of seeing June bloody and holding their child. Since you've read Testaments, you already know that I don't think killing Fred is making June create more victims, other than those who deserve to die, the many commanders she's killed now, for example. She's saved 86 kids, 9 Martha's, and 22 Mayday people so far, that's a pretty big number, if we stretch the idea of "saved" we can include Moira, who had given up until June's last pep talk reminding Moira of who she is, and inspiring her to escape, and of course Emily, who took her place and Emily to make it to Canada. She's been personally responsible for getting at least 117 people out of Gilead. Anyone dying around fighting for the freedom of Gilead or it's imprisoned/trapped citizens isn't dying because of June. They are dying fighting for what matters to them. For example, when June ran to draw fire and allow that plane to escape? She knew she would probably die. What she DID NOT KNOW was that a small group of handmaids did the same thing, gave up their chance to get on the plane, and followed June. As far as the escape from that bus to the breeding farm? They wanted that. Any one of them could have stayed in the van, or broken Lydia's neck. They didn't. They ran. THEIR CHOICE. Sadly some were hit by that train. Same thing with the particulation/salvaging of Fred. June has no power to MAKE any of the refugees do that. THEY made the choice, and I hope it helps them to know at least one son of a bitch from Gilead paid for what he's done.

Agree. Gilead MAY trade for her, to keep her baby, or to shut her up, keep her from writing that book. Also there is the matter of pride, she's been wearing the blue lately, and liked that applause, will she lower herself to admit she'd be in danger in Gilead? (All the handmaids/Martha's had to.) Also, it might depend on that book she's writing to some extent as well. That interview with the show runners said that They only had a minute together if that, June obviously not quite herself after her night, and Luke understandably shocked and discombobulated. It all could change. (again, hints in that showrunner's questions and answers EW article.) Let's see if this works ETA, yay, it worked. From the angle of that sack on his head (another Gilead touch) it looks like his neck was broken too.

I don't think Serena has anything left to offer, and I kind of doubt the will prosecute her for assisting in June's rapes. So, will she ask for asylum for her and her child? Probably. Will she get it? Hmmm, that could go either way.

Quick recap of the season, annoying voice, but well done anyway.

Well, he did knock him to the ground, which was lovely. Also, this time I loved that June sauntered past Fred to really kiss Nick. It worked so well after her attempt to resolve things in that little visit to Fred. Fred was still deluded that June actually enjoyed their private times, and desired him. He finally saw, right before his death, what a complete fool he always was. About that scene, from the showrunner: It's from the interview in the media and spoiler thread. June really was trying to see if she could let her hatred for Fred go...

Also, I'd say read Testaments, unless you don't want to be spoiled when that series starts on Hulu. Personally, I loved the book, not in the same way as the classic Handmaid's Tale, but in the way it answered SO many questions, and certainly in the way the story was resolved. I even loved a lovely little twist in the afterword. I will say, from several of your posts in other threads? Testaments is where you will find answers to several questions you've asked. All that said, unless next season is all about time jumps or something? I think THIS show would have done well to end with Fred finally getting Gilead justice, for the right reasons, his crimes against these women, all women, rather than for blabbing Gilead secrets, which is why he would have died in Gilead. I don't know why we need a 5th season of the Handmaid's Tale. From Bruce's latest interview, perhaps it's there to resolve the Serena issues, or mine them more? Perhaps for Luke, instead of trying to change June so much, to change himself instead? This was such a short season, probably mostly due to trying to film during COVID, but honestly, 2 more episodes could have done all of that, and IMO, we would go straight into Testaments.

I think the show is leaning into Testaments territory, setting up for The Testaments at the very least. They have done nothing to discredit the future show, current book. The showrunner insists that Testaments will be a new show though, but does it resolve the current show? Yes. Do you know who lives and dies? Yes. Do a few characters surprise you? Yes. You may also PM me if you like.

There are a ton of possible spoilers for next season here: https://ew.com/tv/the-handmaids-tale-showrunner-season-4-finale/ I originally put it in the media thread, but kind of feel strange discussing the spoiler parts there. Among them? Sounds like Serena/June may be the match up for next season, or at least part of it. It certainly doesn't sound as if June and Luke will necessarily split up over her taking out Fred. Both of there reactions were due to the time/circumstances. Luke just woke up, found his wife covered in blood. June is somewhat shell shocked from finally executing Fred, etc. Initial reactions may not mean much. Tuello's only seduction interest in Serena has been to get her to cooperate/snare Fred. The baby is definitely Fred's. No repercussions for Nick or Joseph, Gilead will be pleased Fred's been shut up, and both Joseph and Nick work within what is fine by Gilead. They are probably pleased, and completely aware, Joseph is talking with Gilead, it gives them communication with the outside world that's boycotted them completely. A few other things as well...

https://ew.com/tv/the-handmaids-tale-showrunner-season-4-finale/ I just put this question and answers interview in the media thread, BUT, dang, he spills a lot here, not complete spoilers, but considering he runs this thing, certainly speculation. (some of it is...UNEXPECTED.)

Oh man, there is some pretty possibly spoiler stuff in what he says in this interview, these question answers reveal a LOT.

https://ew.com/tv/the-handmaids-tale-showrunner-season-4-finale/ Nice video interview with Bradley Whitford about enjoying his role and the show as well. Interview with the showrunner, much more at link. ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Let's start with the scene between Mark Tuello and Serena Joy. Was there an implication there that Fred might not be the father of her baby, or is that reading too much into it? BRUCE MILLER: I think it's reading too much into it; it's reading into the chemistry. His job is to make her very, very comfortable with him, and he does it very well. But I don't know how much is the job and how much is the way that he feels [about her], but I don't know that he even knows. This is his job, to make her comfortable and to trust him. So yes, they have a very interesting, complicated relationship. As an intelligence officer, his job was to kind of become obsessed with her, before he met her, and know everything about the way that her mind works. You can't help but be impressed by someone like Serena in that way. So is she impressive to him? Sure. But Fred is the father. The other scene that really stood out to me early on was the first scene between June and Fred. Why do you think June went to see him? Was she looking for an apology? No. First, we did a lot of research with our partners at the UN and UNHCR, and refugee workers and all that stuff, to kind of see what this scene would be like, and what would be the stuff that was affecting June. I think June went to see Fred to be able to let him go. That's why she went. "I'm gonna let him go. I'm going to be a good mother. I'm not going to let him control my life anymore." But when she got there, and especially when he apologized - we had a conversation with the refugees, and [they said] that the worst moment was when their abuser apologized. When they realized their abuser knew all along it was wrong from the very beginning. So that's the moment where June decides he should not be on the earth anymore.

I'm sure she'll treasure her husband's wedding ring.

Shows always recap for those just tuning in. I appreciated that these were almost all new scenes.

I just need Serena in the Red Center please. I need Lydia to use her taser on her, I need her hearing "YOUR FAULT!" over and over again, and I need her assigned to the worst commander and his wife there is.

Fred was in a closed up van, they could have crossed the river again. He even says "Are we even in Gilead anymore?" or words to that effect when he's let out.

I think that ship has sailed. He used to think she was a damsel in distress, with a powerful husband that could be useful to the USA. Now he knows who she is, EXACTLY who she is. The first time I watched this episode, and the "You don't own me" music came on? It was jarring, but I got it. Well, I keep watching the whole episode, I like it more each time, but now, when it gets to the music? I'm singing along. I LOVE it. All of the flashbacks were so needed in this episode, to remind us of just how vile Fred, and Gilead is, and how many seemingly "little" things June and other handmaids and Jezebel's had to put up with. That "Don't bite!" segment? Imagine how many times June and others had to tell themselves that? It made everything so real. It made his execution be what it was, not revenge, but justice, Gilead style, only this time? The women participated willingly, not because they would be tortured if they didn't. I especially loved the scenes with Emily and June, and every scene Rita is in? She just shines. Moira was willing to kill to get herself out, so was Luke. Rita hasn't faced having to kill, June got her out. All three are more comfortable now to let someone else do the dirty work. Emily, June, and those women that joined them? Are willing to do the work themselves, they know better than to trust anyone else to give them justice, ever again.