JudyObscure

I didn't find anything paradoxical about Jade's shy demeanor and her past activities. It's been my, admittedly small, experience with strippers and other girls who'll take it off for money that they actually have very low self-esteem, not exactly sparkling personalities, and think that all they have to offer is their bodies. I think Jade and her family like the "free spirit," definition of her because it makes her sound like a Kaitlyn, who is doing rap, making bad jokes, riding the grocery cart, hanging with Kimmel, all while laughing and having a blast. Instead Jade's just "wild," in that she gets drunk and lets men talk her into things. Jade would say I'm judging her, but I'm actually sympathizing with her and hoping that her success on the show will help her see herself the way Chris and his sisters saw her, as a beautiful girl with a ladylike manner --yes, I said that-- and quiet intelligence. I'm glad the show went there with Jade because I know Bachelor Nation contains thousands of young teens who can benefit from seeing that those sexy pictures you put out there, whether on Playboy or Facebook, can come back to haunt you when you're looking for a job, meeting Mr. Right or raising children. First off and worst -- your Dad's is going to see them!

Moonb quote: Ahhhh. I'm starting to get it. I forgot about the picture, that pretty much told the whole story for someone as smart as Mrs. H. 

That's why I was suggesting that the child obviously came from Edith and it was not a big deal. It seems to me that there might have been plenty of plausible reasons why Edith might have had Marigold on the train with her and was passing her back to her father. Perhaps after Marigold had spent a day in town so Edith could buy new baby shoes for her little goddaughter. Edith would have bought Mr. Drewes's first class ticket as a matter of course. I think that makes as much sense as, Edith got off, Mr Drewe got on and picked up a baby, the baby must be Edith's illegitimate child. It just seemed like a stretch to me that both Anna and Mrs. Hughes would immediately have their antenna up about this.  

Anna and Mrs. Hughes: I didn't really see why either one of them thought seeing Mr. Drewe, Marigold and Edith at the train station was gossip worthy. As far as the servants know Edith is self-appointed Godmother of Marigold. She could have taken her shopping or to the children's ballet or whatever and then been returning her to Mr. Drewe. I was glad to see Cora take a sudden interest in her daughter, but when she said she would never forgive Violet and Rosamund for not betraying Edith's confidence, and then immediately said, she wouldn't tell Lord Grantham because, "It isn't my secret to tell.," I was flabbergasted. Doesn't she see that's exactly how Violet and Rosamund had felt? Daisy is so full of herself now it's almost turned me against education. I particularly hate hearing her talk about "bettering" herself in front of the very people she hopes to be better than. Gloomy Bates and his slavishly devoted Anna have decided Baxter is a horrible person for telling the truth under police questioning. Baxter didn't make trouble for you Bates, you made it for yourself when you went off half-cocked, buying tickets for murder, because your manly pride had been hurt. I wonder if Mrs. Drewe is angry enough to try a little blackmail when the time is ripe?

I wish, instead of Whitney's job interview with Chris's friends, she had met three of Chris's women friends from Arlington. Maybe those younger-than-Chris older ladies we saw at the premier. I'd like to know what their typical day is like, what they do for fun, etc. It may all be better than it looks. They may all get in somebody's SUV a couple of days a week and go into town for shopping and lunch together and take turns having playdates with the kids. Maybe it's like sex-in-the city only married-in-the-country and they all laugh about the men and support each other. On the other hand, they might say they left their cool single girl apartments in the city, married and moved to Iowa, looked out at the flat forever and wanted to cry. Those kids didn't even have band uniforms.

I don't want to see any of these women with Chris. I think he's mean. It's not easy to spot, what with editing and the way he runs out of the room whenever the show demands anything other than, "This is an amazing place to fall in love." I saw that mean streak on Andi's show when he was sneering about Nick and I've seen it a few times here. Last night when Britt was having her little meltdown, he tried to say the right soothing things for about 30 seconds and then you saw him thinking, "This is hard, this is uncomfortable, I don't know what to say, why is Britt putting me on the spot like this?" and his ugly, angry look came over his face and he got up quickly and left. This is what the woman he marries will see a lot of. Anytime he comes home drunk after a night out with his friends and she asks him why he didn't call, it's going to be a stupid excuse, followed by angry face, followed by Chris leaving the room. Let's not forget Chris doesn't just have DUI's in his past, I think there were a few fights, too.

What's going on? My TV schedule says "The Bachelor," is on tonight (Sunday) from 8 to 11 and again tomorrow at it's regular time. I'll probably end up having to wait a while to see it because Sunday night is impossible for me. That's why I picked a Monday night show to follow. Angryness.

I don't think Mrs. Gregson has broken any vows through her illness, anymore than a woman paralyzed in a hunting accident has broken her vows by no longer " having and holding." Schizophrenia might cause her to have enough psychotic episodes to make it safer for her to be in a hospital than at home, but she probably has lucid periods where she would love to see her husband. The 1920's were far away from the 1950's and 60's when anti-psychotic medication began to be used but, even then, some treatments were fairly effective and there was always hope for improvement with age. I've read biographies of Zelda Fitzgerald that say she constantly longed for visits from her husband and didn't get them because he had pretty much abandoned her there. I'm not saying I blame Gregson for wanting to divorce her and have a normal marriage with Edith, but I would never think of blaming the ill wife for any part of the marriage break down, and I do think the most honorable reading of his marriage vows would have kept Gregson faithful to her.

I pretty much agree with all of this, except that the Edith vs Mary wars are endlessly fun for me. In fact, I may have a pro-Edith line carved on my headstone. Avaleigh may want to buy an adjoining plot.

I think this is a very unpopular opinion: I don't like Mable Lane Fox. Oh she's cute and sassy but I cringe to see her considering taking Tony back or even being flirtatious with him. It's no secret that he broke their engagement simply because he wanted to try his luck, trotting after Lady Mary Crawley. Any self-respecting woman would be looking straight through him, pretending bored disinterest. I can't believe she would want to be his second choice, every woman deserves better.

Thinking back to other recent Bachelors I was unsure to the very end who they had picked. Some of you body language experts knew, but when it became clear later that they had pretty much made their choice on the first night -- Sean for Catherine, Brad for Emily, for example -- I was surprised. Chris is not only charmless and inarticulate, he's a terrible actor. He has made it so obvious that he prefers Britt, that I can't believe he's into any of the other girls even when he calls them all beautiful and prefect after their dates. Just before they ran off to the concert they were chest to chest and Britt held her big smiling face up to him about five inches from his face. Then he interviews that he just doesn't know what it is but he and Britt have "such chemistry." Duh, Chris. I thought Ben was putty in Courtney's hands, but this is just pathetic to watch.

It must have been terrifying for Edith to find herself pregnant. Yes she took a selfish risk but she had been in love for quite a while and it's not always easy to resist that sort of temptation indefinitely. She wouldn't have been the first woman to tell herself, "it won't happen to me." So there she is pregnant, with no idea what to do, and the two women she probably trusts most in the world, her wise grandmother and her revered, sophisticated aunt are united in telling her that the only possible thing to consider (after she refused abortion) was to go away, have the baby, and give the child into foster care. They probably presented the Schroeder family to her as a fate accompli while Edith was still flat on her back in the "nursing" home. What mental or practical resources did she have to fight against them? Could she go online and research other possibilities? Did she know any women of her class who had kept their illegitimate children with them? Did she even have a friend her age to discuss this with? Did she have any reason to believe that if she told her parents they would say anything different than her grandmother did? It would have just been two more people who knew about her disgrace and she may have had reason to believe that her father would kick her out. That was still a very common reaction. Edith had know way of knowing that the initial pain of giving up her child would not go away, even after she went home to Downton. When she brought the child to the Drewes she thought it would ease her pain but it was only making things worse. She has made some bad decisions all along, but I think they're understandable considering her lack of options. I think she's finally listening to her instincts and is hoping to do the best for her child from this point on. This time without listening to the persuasion of others.

When she was lying in bed gazing at her picture and crying.

Things I didn't like: The narration. It was obtrusive and unnecessary. Characters named Harry and Gary. Needlessly confusing. Hector's thing with the babysitter. It's disgusting and makes me dislike him. Speaking Greek in front of people who don't. It's rude. Hugo's parents; for not weaning or disciplining their child, for allowing him to destroy property, for allowing him to endanger other children, for not taking him home if they can't control him. Harry for slapping a child with enough force to dislocate his jaw and give him whiplash. I've been kicked by a wild little neighbor boy who had just unpacked all my good china while playing in my basement and it never occurred to me to hit him. You just take children like that by the arm and return them to their parents. Tell them their child is out of control and ruining the party if you feel like it. Tell them they need family therapy and parenting classes. Tell them Hugo is going to have a miserable friendless life and it will be their fault, but don't ever slap a child in the face. Harry just looked like a monster, the size difference is too much, it wasn't even his kid and it makes you wonder what other, smaller, weaker, things he abuses.

Thanks for that, I've always been curious as to their exact ages. Recently, I've seen several people say Mary was twenty when the show started so I took that on trust and thought Edith as her younger sister would have been 19 at the oldest. I also thought the Pamuk thing happened early on so they would have still been those ages. My brain was probably omitting great lengths of time when not much happened.

So Carly "won" the pig wrastlin' date and the singing date and got stiffed both times. She really should be refusing the rose at the next opportunity. I just saw a young photo of Justin Bieber that looked exactly like Britt. All he needed was the long blonde extensions. Could that be a Bachelor surprise for us? It would explain the slim hips.

Shazaam. Well she did compose an eloquent letter to the Turkish embassy while she was still a teenager. I don't really think social conscience and good writer automatically go together. Edith is able to put her thoughts on paper. Sybil might have been more inclined to put her thoughts into practical action. We know that Edith's first letter to the editor was about the treatment of soldiers after the war and that she wrote letters to their families for them when they were too ill to do it for themselves during the war.

I think the ability to glower for hours at a time must be the number one requirement for models of both sexes. I tell them their faces are going to stick that way and they just don't care.

I'm thinking this show will give good message board the way "The Affair," did. The more we argue the better I like it!

I've just been looking at images of Pola Negri, the moving picture star Isabelle mentioned when she first saw Mary's new do. Good call, show! I see more resemblance to Mary there than in the more well known, Clara Bow or Louise Brooks. "Doormat," is used a lot to describe Edith and Lavinia and yet they don't fit my definition of someone who lets others repeatedly wipe their feet on them. To me the ultimate doormat is Mablelane. Last week I thought I might like her, but if she takes Tony back after he broke their engagement, just because he saw something he liked better? No!

I'm not sure if I agree with Simon on that. I can think of lots of English literature where underdogs won. Fanny in "Mansfield Park," Jane Eyre, "Chariots of Fire," etc. Even in Simon's narrow world the English embraced Susan Boyle. Yet, even if that's truly the case I don't see that Edith is less "qualified," than Mary. Mary may be prettier to some people's taste but It's not an obvious case of one actress being a ten and the other a four. Edith's nose is a little too prominent but Mary's eyes are too small and close set and Edith has the most striking hair color. It wouldn't be illogical for a few men to find Edith the most attractive. As for "accomplishments," Mary is a good rider and Edith is a good writer who reads the newspapers and might actually be an interesting person to talk with after dinner. I think this is where JF's writing really fails for me. His view of Mary seems very much like the high school boys who all look to each other to decide which girl is "hottest," because they lack the confidence to go against the crowd mentality. He writes Mary as the woman everyone admires even as she speaks lines that make her seem self-centered and mean-spirited. Her tendency to kick Edith when she's down, her wanting to "show Tony what he's missing" even after she's already hurt him, all seem like thirteen year-old mean girl stuff to me, far beneath an adult woman. I picture Fellowes, after Mary says these things, giggling and saying, "Isn't she wonderful!" No, it isn't wonderful to most adults. "Outspoken," is only brave and admirable when it has a purpose, like standing up for the oppressed or correcting a wrong. It doesn't take courage to say mean things to your younger sister when you know your family won't think less of you for it and will defend you if she fights back. I think, when Fellowes writes these lines for Mary, he reveals himself as the nerdy kid hiding just behind the bully and getting vicarious pleasure from being his friend.

That's been my experience here in Ohio farm country. My neighbors are retired farmers (sold up for eighteen million) and they hate my mini-dachshund, blaming her for the eight inch high piles left by the big strays. Poor Becca! Runaway horse and then having to shoot the gun. I always think that looks like it would hurt your elbows and all because women shooting guns turns Chris on. What does that tell us?

I know this is a millage varies thing but I would be extremely uncomfortable all squished up with anyone other than my dog. If I was part of the show I would be spending a lot of time figuring out how to space myself three or four women from Britt without being obvious about it. I'm betting that sweet little horse of Becca's was trained to follow behind the lead horse. That's what makes it safe to put a novice on it's back with no training. Becca probably could have propped her feet up on it's neck and done her nails and it would have kept on walking in line.

We know that's not how Sharleen really kisses.

You know Kelsey it's not just using big words that makes you articulate, part of it is knowing what they mean. Becca is great.. She's funny without trying too hard over it (pay attention Kaitlyn,) natural, easy conversationalist, and good looking. She shouldn't worry about being a virgin because she's clearly a quick learner with lots of beginners luck. Far too good for Chris. Chris is a gormless lout. Juan Pablo had a smoother way with words. How hard would it have been to explain to the group that he needed to chose a girl for the concert and that he was sorry, wished he could take them all, but he chose Britt? I could not believe my ears when Chris bluntly told Kelsey, "Ashley says you're a big fake," What? I think it should be a life rule that when one person is spreading criticism about another they should be required to come up with examples. Because "fake," could be anything from gigantic false eye-lashes to telling the medics you're definitely going to get a rose in the middle of your panic attack. Chris didn't know this and yet just took crazy Ashley at her word. He then proceeded to watch the vainest girl in the world (Ashley) cry for ages with her nose running all over her makeup job and never offered her a handkerchief. He knew he was going to be sending at least one girl home, he should have had one. I hope Chris chooses Britt and she turns him down with a prepared speech about different paths in life.