okerry

Just get Danielle to marry Alexei's brother! Problem solved!

In every case I've seen where it all went bad - both IRL and on this show - the American assumed that the foreigner would be so grateful to be allowed to stay in the USA that they'd shower the American with love and gratitude for the rest of their lives. Just like Jorge, Danielle, Mark (The Specimen,) Russ, and most of the others thought would happen. Of course, sometimes it can work out fine. Alexei and Loren seem pretty normal and will probably be fine. I'm just saying that when it goes bad, it goes very very bad, and is just like you see on this show. They're not overdramatizing it. In some ways, it's even worse.

THANK YOU Of course it's more than what's on the inside.

Exactly. Of course AFAIK the anus and rectum are undisturbed in this type of surgery. A piece of colon is taking from somewhere else - not sure if they use the large or the small - and used in the vaginoplasty.

TH = Talking Head, where the participants are sitting on the couch and simply commenting on what they're doing on screen.

The worst part of this would be Noelle thinking that because this guy is willing to go out with her as a friend - though in truth it's probably because he was set up by production to do that, but I digress - the worst part would be Noelle jumping to the conclusion that if he's open to being a friend, he's open to being a boyfriend. That won't happen - not with a straight male. It's not "hate" or "transphobia." It's just nature and what they're physically attracted to. Do gay men "hate" women because they don't want to sleep with them? Of course not. It's just their nature and what they're physically attracted to. Exactly. Sisters do not introduce their vaginas to their brothers in any way, shape, or form - not without a huge load of lifelong problems as a result. Again, Jazz seems to have no idea what appropriate boundaries are. ETA: Okay, Jazz, you insist you are a girl no different from any other. Well, these are the things girls live with. Boundaries become very important, both out of respect for yourself and for those around you. Can anyone imagine if a FTM transgender person said, "My penis is now part of the family and my sisters need to be introduced to it?"

Jazz is quickly learning to have no boundaries and to just bulldoze anyone else's. That's a very bad way to go through life, no matter who you are. This may well be the result of anti-depressants. That's exactly what happens to someone who's on them.

I don't think there's any doubt about that. He even looked like an "actor." No way that was genuine.

Actually, I'm okay with it being shown, and not just for any entertainment/trainwreck value. These reality shows do have a way of bringing out the truth without ever actually saying so - they just show what happens, even if things are getting worse instead of better. Anyone who watches *My Big Fat Fabulous Life,* some episodes of *My 600-lb Life,* and *Sister Wives* knows that these people aren't sugarcoated at all. Like the people on those other shows - which do not show how fabulous it is to be morbidly obese or share your husband with other women, but quite the opposite - Jazz is showing us how complicated "transitioning" really is and that it's still an experimental treatment. I say let it continue to be on TV, if Jazz is going to do this anyway. It's a cautionary tale and really very informative and educational in its own way.

Yebbut - most Americans don't know this when they marry someone from a foreign country, even though it seems to be practically universal that an American spouse is expected to do this. The foreign spouses stay quiet about it until AFTER the marriage and then pretend they thought the American knew they would do this. I know of more than one IRL situation where the American was also expected to pay to bring over his bride's family, too, but didn't realize this until AFTER the marriage. Still waiting to see that one on this show.

Then, in all seriousness, why do you feel people are so "obsessed" with gender? What benefit are they getting from living this way? There must be one somewhere, or it wouldn't be so prevalent. I already gave my explanation for this, in the "because sex" post above. Will you share yours? (I don't think this is off topic because it's really the heart of what the show is about, IMHO.)

You are right: We don't look at infertile people that way, because, as you also mentioned, reproduction is not the only reason for sex. An infertile person can still be a wholly satisfactory sex partner, whether long-term or short-term. Again: People are upset by an individual who presents as being of one sex when they actually are not. It is deceptive, whether one thinks it should be or not - but how could it not be? That's kind of the whole idea! This is why "disclose before dating" is vitally important, not only to protect the trans person but out of basic human respect for the one they're dating. Anyone see the movie To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything, Love, Julie Newmar? This very subject was brought up and I'm always reminded of Vida Boheme's (Patrick Sawyze) speech about "human rules." I'm afraid that human sexuality is not going to go away, no matter how much people would like to pretend it doesn't exist so they don't have to deal with it. Part of life as an adult IS learning how to deal with it. ETA: I don't want to appear entirely unsympathetic, though. Over the last decade or so - maybe longer - the normal boundaries that have been in place for generations are being torn down and that has caused tremendous social problems IMHO. Hookup culture is seen as the normal and healthy way to get sex. Very often it's with strangers (boundaries shot) or if not, it's with friends (normal boundaries torn down.) Men and women live on the same dormitory floors at college. Anyone who objects to this is a prude, or trying to oppress others, or somesuch. These are only a couple of examples. There are many more that make it quite understandable as to why someone would want it all to go away, as the poster above is essentially saying. Allowing individuals who are physically of the opposite sex into the privacy of restrooms is, again, a loss of normal boundaries for many, many people. But they'll be subjected to a barrage of ridicule and name-calling if they dare object. I submit that this is not about "hate." This is about boundaries - boundaries that are being torn down from every side to the detriment of all and the understanding of none.

I'm not an expert, either, but I do know that testosterone is primarily responsible for the sex drive in both males and females. Adult biological women have testosterone, too, just not as much as males. It stands to reason that if you suppress testosterone in order to essentially keep an individual as a physically immature child - and that's what was done to Jazz - and load up on the estrogen, you're going to have someone with a big chest and a pretty low sex drive. Which is how Jazz seems to be responding.

Because sex. That's why. Sex is vitally important to human beings and not just as a frivolous distraction. If we were not highly interested in sex, we would have died out as a species long ago and none of of would be here now. That's why finding mates is so extremely important to humans. Knowing how and where to find them - and recognize them - is extremely important, again so we don't die out as a species. Not much else matters if we do, lol. That's why people are so very weirded out by someone who has the secondary characteristics of one sex but the primary characteristics of the other. That is seen as deceptive and may well cause someone to waste valuable reproductive time pursuing a "mate" who already knows they cannot be a mate for this person at all - not for sex (because the pursuer would not be attracted) and not for reproducing (because the one being pursued is not capable of it.) It's entirely a primal response guided by one of the most powerful drives in nature: The drive to mate and reproduce. Look, I'm just the messenger here. It's not "hate." It's just our primal nature.

And would this involve having a colostomy for a while, while the colon itself heals? Also wondering whether they use the small or large intestine for this. Crikey. Just say no. No. Plenty of couple use the back door that everyone already has. Seems like that would be better. Just remove the male genitals, make the outside appear female, and go from there rather than tear up your body this way for - what? Mine's ancient, too, and yes, driving was very important. Today? Parents are servants, not parents. That's why.

I don't know for sure, but I'm betting Jazz has been "home-schooled" for a while now - meaning Jeanette lets Jazz stay home and do whatever Jazz wants. We'll probably find out about that later.

I have to wonder if things like this are an almost subconscious effort to bring out Jazz's normal sex drive - which isn't appearing since it was suppressed with powerful hormone blockers. Sorry, Mom, you can't have it both ways.

ITA. I love drag queens myself and would have loved that show, but those are for adults. Sixteen is not an adult. It's truly bizarre how Jazz is both over- and under-sexualized, all at the same time. No wonder she's getting to be a bigger mess with every show.

Without reading any other comments yet for this ep: Jazz is getting increasingly obnoxious, but how can that be a shock to anyone? Jazz is an adolescent who is trapped in the hormonally wrecked body of a child. How is that better than coming to terms with her natural body and postponing surgery until it can actually give her the results she says she wants? One thing I do agree with Jazz on: No therapist is going to be able to solve that problem.

If they do renew this show, I hope they rename it "My Big Fat Miserable Life as a Narcissistic Food Addict." At least that would be truth in advertising, lol.

After watching UnReal, I'm inclined that most of the emotion we see on this show is, indeed, real, though largely achieved through producer manipulation. That's because acting - real, convincing, acting - is hard. There's a reason why the top TV and film stars command such huge salaries: Because acting is hard and takes a lot of dedication to pull off day after day. What we see is "real" in that it's the real emotions these people are going through, provoked to the max through producer manipulation. If they were really that good at acting, they wouldn't be on this shitshow fer sure, lol. Russ, it sure sucks when you're married but your "wife" isn't, don't it? Jorge & Anfisa: A match made in a cesspool. That's why you'll probably outlast all the rest. Team Alexei. I think anyone has the right to know if their spouse/prospective spouse has any sort of inheritable condition. There's no way Loren didn't know. Dani & Mo are just the gift that keep on giving. But if somebody would just get those gurlses out of there - you know, like, maybe, their father? - I could enjoy this more.

First impression: The women look like the lineup from HBO's Cathouse. Not that there's anything wrong with that, lol.

Hey is anyone going to watch the *Spouse House* show that's on right after 90DF tonight? I've only seen a couple of ads and not sure exactly what it's about yet, but I'm there! ETA: And I just found this! http://forums.previously.tv/forum/3377-the-spouse-house/

I still wish the people in charge of this thing would actually take it halfway seriously. It would make for some fascinating TV if they did. I love trash TV, too, but "trash" is one thing and "garbage" is another, lol. The first season was believable and kind of sweet, but it's gone straight to garbage since then. Instead of putting out an open casting call, which is only going to bring out the famewhores, try looking on some of the dating sites like eHarmony where most people there are looking for something besides hookups and sometimes really do want to get married. Comb the site for any who might make suitable candidates and then contact them privately to see if they'll agree to be on the show. And don't limit it only to under-thirty hotties. Let in some older couples and some who might not look exactly TV-ready but are serious about marriage. And get some "experts" who are serious about it, too, and not just those who want to be on TV and are really just hanging around to see if they can get strangers to have sex for a TV show. That's all Pepper and the "sex therapist" do. Pastor Cal might be all right, but the rest are worthless. C'mon, Show! We haven't given up on you yet. We know you can do it!

I've had the same thought and I really, really hope that's the case.