truthaboutluv

I think there are key factors that should be considered here - one, I sincerely doubt Nick had a gaggle of cameras in his face when he told any of these women in his past, that he loved them. Two, I sincerely doubt they were dating a bunch of other guys at the same time. I think the situation with Andi and why Nick was so bumbling with the "I love you" is because he knows it puts him at an extremely vulnerable place with the risk of heartbreak even higher, now that he's all in. I mean this whole situation lends itself to the very real possibility of one giant fail - he's competing against others, because it's a competition she can't truly tell him how she feels because there's a show to film, he really hasn't known her that long and during that short space of time he's known her, they've only really spent a handful of hours together. It's a risky, risky situation and that's why I think his feelings were as genuine as could be with this show and genuine at that time. Because he wasn't spitting the words out like he was so certain of himself and them, because he was nervous, he was wary, etc. That rings honest and real to me.

Brad didn't reject Emily. He actually picked her and proposed to her the second time he did the show. She became the Bachelorette after they broke up.

This. Stuff like that always makes me suspect and if a guy ever said that to me, I'd see that as a red flag because my immediate thought would be, "so how am I supposed to be sure you really mean it this time or do you mean it until we break up and the next woman you'll tell her the same thing." Many people do this and think like this and I'm not sure why - that they have to downplay past relationships, past love to prove how committed they are to this new person. It's like people come in your life at different times for different reasons and just because they don't turn out to be your forever doesn't automatically mean that it wasn't real and no longer important. Honestly, more than his baseball obsession and other stuff, these are the things that raises red flags for me about Josh. The "I haven't had a relationship in 5 years but suddenly in the space of this short span of time, all while you were dating a bunch of other guys I know you are the person I want to marry and spend the rest of my life with" and now there's that "yeah when I said those words in the past it wasn't true." Like I appreciated Nick's approach with his past relationships where rather than dismissing his feelings for them or acting like it wasn't real or wasn't true, it was more, "well here's what went wrong..." But yeah Nick is who she was interrogating simply because he downplayed his heartbreak when talking about the past relationships and his family talked about how heartbroken he was. And Josh gets a pass for basically saying he told women he loved them without meaning it. That makes sense.

I cracked up when Josh mentioned baseball because I was imagining the reaction of the viewers already annoyed with his talking about baseball. However I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and blame that on the producers. It's a pretty known fact that while the general sentiments in the video are that of the contestant, the producers do tweak and make suggestions so I'm betting that baseball reference was because of them. Possible. With reality shows, there's always a question of what's completely real.

I'm telling you, I don't for a second think the video is false but damn would that make the entire season for me if it is and this season blows up as spectacularly, even more so really, in RS's face as Desiree's season. Bringing my post from the episode thread over to here where it can be discussed more openly with the spoilers out there: So there is a deleted scene on abc.com of Andi viewing video messages from Nick and Josh. I actually didn't even realize that was missing from the episode even though it is a tradition when it gets down to the F3. A couple of things - yeah I'm further leaning to Andi sleeping with both Nick and Josh which, hey more power to her. But both Josh and Nick make comments about their night with her in the FS that in my opinion make it clear there was way more than talking that happened there. Nick talks about how it had all parts of the couple they've been from day one, that it had the intensity, passion, subtle moments. Yeah I don't think he was just talking about conversation. And Josh talked about how amazing it was and felt, being with her, waking up next to her, etc. So yeah, all I'm saying is stuff went down in those fantasy suites. Two, Andi may have the best poker face of any Bachelorette I've ever seen which may have something to do with her being a lawyer because while my gut still says she picks Josh, watching her reactions to those video messages, it does create some reasonable doubt. She really did look like she was just glowing and had this ear splitting smile on her face throughout Nick's entire message and just looked so happy. With Josh she wasn't smiling the entire time but there was just this genuine fondness and warmth on her face, looking at him on the screen. Honestly, IMO, Andi looked like a woman in love with both guys while watching their videos. This may be the first season where right up until the end the lead may have truly been torn or like I said, her poker face was just that damn good. I am also really interested in seeing how Andi lets Nick go and what reason she gives for her decision on the show and during the AFTR because re-watching their fantasy dates, while Josh was saying all the right things about family, children and she definitely seemed happy with what he was saying and there was a lot of heat going on between them in the fantasy suite, Andi looked truly blown away when Nick told her he loved her. And then in her talking head she talked again about never meeting someone who she felt such a mental and physical connection with. And this is the line she's been using about Nick from their first interactions - that she feels comfortable, that he sees her, sees who she is, that she can be herself with him and later she started with the talk about their intense passion and physical chemistry. So again I'm left to conclude that it really was a matter of her going with what she knew and was comfortable with or the editing hid the true intensity/depth of her and Josh's connection.

lol...probably. The highlight of any episode for CH. So there is a deleted scene on abc.com of Andi viewing video messages from Nick and Josh. I actually didn't even realize that was missing from the episode even though it is a tradition when it gets down to the F3. A couple of things - yeah I'm further leaning to Andi sleeping with both Nick and Josh which, hey more power to her. Just hope whoever she picks isn't too upset about that little fact, if they even know. But both Josh and Nick make comments about their night with her in the FS that in my opinion make it clear there was way more than talking that happened there. Nick talks about how it had all parts of the couple they've been from day one, that it had the intensity, passion, subtle moments. Yeah I don't think he was just talking about conversation. And Josh talked about how amazing it was and felt, being with her, waking up next to her, etc. So yeah, all I'm saying is stuff went down in those fantasy suites. Two, Andi may have the best poker face of any Bachelorette I've ever seen which maybe that has to do with her being a lawyer because while my gut still says she picks Josh, watching her reactions to those video messages, I kind of cannot tell for sure. She really did look like she was just glowing and had this ear splitting smile on her face throughout Nick's entire message and just looked so happy. With Josh she wasn't smiling the entire time but there was just this genuine fondness and warmth, looking at him on the screen. Honestly she looked like a woman in love with both while watching their videos. This may be the first season where right up until the end the lead may have truly been torn or like I said, her poker face was just that damn good. I am also really interested in seeing how Andi lets Nick go if she does indeed pick Josh and what reason she gives for her decision on the show and during the AFTR because re-watching their fantasy dates, while Josh was saying all the right things about family, children and she definitely seemed happy with what he was saying and there was a lot of heat going on between them in the fantasy suite, Andi looked truly blown away when Nick told her he loved her. And then in her talking head she talked again about never meeting someone who she felt such a mental and physical connection with. And this is the line she's been using about Nick from their first interactions - that she feels comfortable, that he sees her, sees who she is, that she can be herself with him and later she started with the talk about their intense passion and physical chemistry. So I would be really interested in hearing how and why, if she picks Josh, she made that choice. I have an idea but it'll be really interesting to see it play out.

I forgot to comment on the most ridiculous moment of this episode - Chris Harrison walking both Josh and Nick to the rose ceremony spot, leaving, only to come right back to dramatically announce that Chris was no longer there. It's like he left to make it seem like he was going to get Chris to dramatically walk back in alone. I actually laughed out loud when that happened, because it was just so stupid and these are the moments where despite all his millions that I am jealous of, I also feel so embarrassed for Chris Harrison.

Here's my main issue with the Wyatt/Callie relationship and it may seem minor to some, but I can't get past the fact that the writers gave no concrete explanation for his whole living arrangement. And the longer it's left just hanging in the air, the longer I'm left to conclude that basically Wyatt left his mom's place to come back to a state where he had no solid place to live for a girl who he had not spoken to since the day he ratted her out to her foster parents and who the last time he saw her, she was in love with her soon to be foster brother. Like this is why I just can't really get on-board the relationship because I can't get past the utter stupidity of his actions and I certainly don't see them as romantic. As much as Brandon has been called creepy and borderline compared to Liam by some, I just find Wyatt's actions incredibly dumb and nonsensical and that makes me not root for him and Callie. Because sorry, all I can think everytime I see them is dude needs to go home to his mother or the writers need to make up some relative and give some solid explanation of his living situation. Wyatt is a kid and I'm supposed to honestly think it sweet or romantic that he's basically on his own, bumming at some foster girl's apartment to be with a girl who frankly doesn't need any boyfriend right now if you ask me. Callie should just be single because she clearly and understandably has way too many issues and shit going on in her life.

Well if you take Andi at her word, she picked him because something about him just stood out to her and even that early, she just felt comfortable with him. And I will say despite how meek and clearly nervous he was coming out the limousine, and while I'm sure their conversation was very edited, she and Nick did seem to just be having a normal, nice conversation from the little we saw that night. He didn't seem like he was trying too hard, it didn't seem forced, etc. And also, more importantly, I think this is key - Yeah you basically answered your own question. Because me personally, Marcus and Chris never did anything for me. Chris seemed like a very sweet guy but he was just too big and no-neck like for me and I found most of his conversations incredibly dull. Marcus made me slightly uncomfortable from the first night - on a purely aesthetic level, without question, incredibly handsome. But I just felt like everything he said were just words because his face was just always so expressionless. I could never get a real read on him. The only time I ever felt anything from him was when they were reacting to the news about Eric. And Josh - nope, sorry the gym body, shiny tan, blinding white teeth. Uh uh...couldn't do it. Aside from Nick, I actually thought Brian was kind of cute but other than that, none of those guys were particularly appealing to me. So yeah, at the end of the day it's all just personal taste and whatever appeals to you. And in fairness, from Andi's comments when giving Nick the first impression rose it was clear he was not someone that in a normal situation she may have looked twice at.

It goes either way. There have been many Bachelors and Bachelorettes in the past where it's been confirmed that nothing happened in the fantasy suite and some where it's been confirmed that sex definitely happened. With both Bob Guiney and Juan Pablo, two bachelors who were definitely on the sleazy side, it's been more or less confirmed they slept with if not all, definitely some of the women. I personally definitely think Andi slept with Josh and while she may not have slept with Nick, I definitely think way more than talking happened. Andi may have felt more for Josh and ultimately chose him but unless she's just THAT good of an actress, girl was pretty hot for Nick too imo.

Agreed. I think that's what made the scene so awesome for me. That was a very real and honest reaction Nick had there. Like you could tell for the moment he forgot there were any cameras and just had a "wait…say what?" And his laugh was just completely unfiltered. It actually was an awesome moment.

LCD - Last Chance Date. If my memory is correct, in the finale episode, both contestants get to meet the Bachelor(ette)'s parents and spend some time together. Then the next day there is a last chance date which is usually the whole day and then after the lead makes their decision. So if as some speculate she lets Nick go before the RC, from the promo it would have to have been either the morning of the final rose ceremony because he clearly gets a LCD with her based on the shots of them making out in either her or his hotel room at night and he met her parents as well as I think there's a shot of him and Josh both, speaking to her dad.

Sharleen finally recapped this episode. I loved the fact that she was basically like "yeah I'm in Paris so ain't nobody got time to be sitting in front of a computer writing a recap". As usual I agreed with most of what she said and was cracking up at so many parts - basically her whole recap of Marcus' hometown date and her loving Chris' drunk mother. http://www.alltheprettypandas.com/recaps/episode8#comments-53bea318e4b01539a52a5ee7=

The day part of Nick and Andi's date actually reminded me of a lot of her previous interactions with Josh. That's how their dates/conversations had gone in the past - she would go into interrogator mode and get pissy for no reason and I felt like that was what was going on with her and Nick which had never been the case before between them. Not to mention that the scene felt sliced and diced like I often thought her scenes with Josh were. Honestly, I think last night's show was the editing finally showing viewers who Andi's pick was - Josh. While the attraction was always there and he was clearly one of her favorites, I felt that the love story got lost in favor of the storyline about her having all these doubts about him and not being sure if she could trust him, her feelings for him, etc. and the show trying to make Nick into this awful villain that all of the guys hated. So with only two episodes left, assuming Andi picks Josh, the editing had to show how that happened. But they still left enough cute moments between her and Nick during the night-time portion to still create doubt. I think it's a mixture of the too shiny look, the tan, that makes the teeth really blinding. Have to say when Nick and Josh were walking to the rose ceremony, I thought Nick was way hotter. I actually thought Nick looked amazing. With Josh, that was the first time I really saw the really muscular arms/body. Even his butt looked a little big. Everything about Josh's body screams gym rat and that's the same reason I was never attracted to Sean - well that and he always looked like a burned lobster. Yes and well there already is a highly accomplished Andy Murray...

That seems to be the consensus from people who poke and analyze and nitpick this stuff to death. I think one of the biggest evidence for some is that there was no shot of the two guys in their suits. I guess the argument is that the promo monkeys didn't show Josh because if they only showed him it would give it away that he was the only one left at that point. I do think it's clear that Nick does get through a LCD because there's a shot of him and Andi kissing at what looks like night-time and from the plane video, he tells whoever he is speaking to that he loved her parents so he clearly got to meet the parents too. So if she does let him go before the final rose ceremony, I guess it would be like Emily with Arie...although wait, did Arie get a LCD? I know he met her parents. eta: As for my comment above, yeah this is when you remember how honestly kind of creepy this show is.

I think the actor's eyes are interesting in that it has this way of always making him look like he's two seconds away from breaking into tears. I think that partly lends itself to the "hangdog" expression. But speaking of mouths, that's one of the things that bugs me about Wyatt. The actor has a bad habit of having his mouth hang slightly open when he's listening to another person or just standing silently in a scene and it makes him look like he has this "d'oh" face. And different strokes because while Brandon or the actor personally does nothing for me (I find both him and the guy playing Wyatt just two decently looking guys), I find Avan Jogia's whole "hippie/indie" schtick incredibly annoying. He's an okay looking guy but never got the hype over his looks and he's only serviceable as an actor imo. Sorry off-topic, moving on now. I already stated my opinions on how fast the writers moved with Brandon and Callie so I won't repeat that. That being said, I do think Brandon and Callie has clearly been positioned and set up so far as "end-game". Now hey, who knows how long the show will last and with the way these writers blast through storylines, who the hell knows how things will change but I do think that for right now, Brandon/Callie is the intended pairing and frankly I didn't think that was even subtle or that anyone would be genuinely surprised by that. Yeah they've set the reset button because frankly the whole thing just became way too over the top last season but I don't think it was ever going to mean that the pairing was truly over. However, not to rehash my post in the General Discussion thread, the problem is the writers have backed themselves in a corner by making the pairing too intense, too fast. I think it would have been far wiser and smarter to keep the attraction or possible attraction/interest as something bubbling under the surface with small hints here and there that tells the audience something could or will happen in the future but without Brandon or Callie ever actually admitting any attraction to each other. Blasting through the relationship was a mistake in my opinion because not only did it ruin Brandon's character in many people's eyes, it put them at this now kind of awkward place. I know some felt Brandon and Callie were acting like believable siblings last week and it was great but I'm sorry, I didn't buy any of that and I felt having Wyatt and others say it was incredibly forced. Including Brandon telling Lou Callie is his sister as much as Marianna - yeah the girl you were rolling around, tonguing on a floor just barely a month ago...sure. Because despite blasting through storylines, time on this show doesn't seem to be moving nearly as fast. Yup basically... Right now I'm just looking forward to the inevitable Dani fallout and particularly Stef going gangsta on that bitch. Let me know when that happens.

So I take back a previous comment. Watching the show last night, yeah I'm going with Andi slept with both Josh and Nick. Not saying that means I believe that's what swayed her decision as I'm sure she already felt more for Josh but girl looked straight up horny at the end of both of those dates. And even if she didn't go all the way with both - there was probably still a lot of stuff that happened between her and Nick as I feel certain she definitely slept with Josh.

I don't see it that way. Callie has just always been comfortable turning to and confiding in Brandon. Consider her stealing his phone in the first episode and then telling him about where she was going when Jude kept calling his phone. I always felt like she did that because she read Brandon perfectly the moment she met him and knew he was that guy, the one who despite barely knowing her then, would do everything to help her. And from that moment, she's been comfortable leaning on him and opening up to him, as much as Callie opens up to anyone. I don't even think it's a romantic thing one way or the other - she's just been more comfortable opening up to him than Wyatt.

YMMV but I saw nothing pudgy about Nick's body. Honestly I was stunned by Nick's body because it almost seemed to not align with what I've seen when he's clothed. I was wondering where that chest and those abs came from. But supposedly Nick was actually a track star in college (go figure with Josh being boxed in as the athlete - the editors and their labels) and his body looked like that of someone who's fit and stays in shape but may not be a gym rat/weight lifter. As for the book, I don't know I thought it was cute. Not everything has to be super serious in my opinion to prove how "adult" you are. And it's interesting the responses to the book and the comments about Nick saying like so much since according to Andi in her conversation with CH, her concerns with regards to Nick and Josh is that she worries it's only ever serious and intense with the former while with the latter she wonders if there's something deeper beyond the fun and giddiness. I thought that was an interesting view of the two. That being said, yeah this is so going to be Josh and after the editing really not playing up their relationship in my opinion, it was really ramped up tonight with their fantasy date. That date was way longer than Nick's and while hers with Chris was about the same time, half of it was spent with her dumping Chris so that doesn't count. In my opinion, Andi was hot for Josh from day one and while she did build something great with Nick, ultimately she went where her libido wanted to go and with what she had been used to and was most comfortable with. At the end of the day, Josh just made the most sense to Andi. And while he personally does zilch for me, more power to her. IMO it's more that he was no longer around guys threatened by him who kept attacking him and jumping down his throat every chance they got.

I don't even care about the rest of the episode but please tell me I wasn't the only one who saw the extra scene between Nick and Andi when the credits were rolling where she copped to being a bed-wetter till middle school. Nick's reaction was just classic - the stuff of what great gifs are made of.

Saw the last scene with Brandon and Lena. That's a really crappy position he's putting her in but I'm not surprised he feels the way he does and in my opinion, his saying that no one will look at him the same again if they find out, is exactly why it needs to come out. He feels guilty and feels shame when the reality of what happened is that an adult woman took advantage of him, when he was drunk no less. I did laugh at his saying Stef would kill Dani because yes, that is likely an understatement.

Got it. Or he just hadn't taken his spot in the line yet and the promo monkeys used it to play with the viewers, just as they did last week with the Final 4 where there was a shot of only Marcus, Josh and Chris waiting for rose ceremony.

FTR, I made it very clear I don't buy the theory of the tape being fake because really...come on now. However, would I think it is hilarious if it was, hell yeah. Just like I thought it was hilarious when he ended up with egg on his face over Desiree's season because RS is such a smug, obnoxious tool, watching him come out looking like a fool is always entertaining. But I have been saying since the second episode of the show that Andi likely chose Josh and I'm sticking with that and it's not like I care either way. I pretty much rarely have much faith in any relationship coming from this show lasting.

ABC has been running promos for the episode all morning and I am pretty certain that there are shots of what clearly looks like Chris and Andi during the night-time part of their date. There was also a clip of Chris and Josh at the rose ceremony, with Nick out of the shot, perhaps to suggest he was eliminated. I mean it is all but a fact that Chris is the one who leaves tonight, particularly with the spoilers from the filming of the MTA but it is odd RS would state something that could so easily be disproven.

I think the no two proposals can be explained away as simply as she stopped whoever was not her pick before they could propose. Goodness knows poor Ashley got raked over the coals by some for making Ben actually propose before telling him he was not her choice. So it could be as simple as Andi does not give the guy, assuming it is Nick, a chance to start talking and propose and quickly lets him know that she chose Josh.