truthaboutluv

I disagree that none of that sounds like Josh. I know the show created the "Nick is so cocky/arrogant" edit but I don't believe that Josh wasn't just as confident in being Andi's choice. And at the end of last week's episode, I think both guys through their ITM comments made it clear that they were certain she was going to pick them - Josh stated how he wasn't even thinking about Nick, didn't care about him and that he knew it was him and Andi and how ready he was for them to start their lives together. In my opinion, either of these guys would have been stunned by Andi's not choosing them. I also never saw any indication during the season that Nick saw Josh as his "biggest rival" because the edit the show showed was that apparently Nick didn't think there was any rival to him for Andi, that's how certain he was she was going to pick him. Finally, I don't buy the whole trying to win Andi back if Nick is the F2 largely based on the same smoking gun evidence that he is F2 - the video on the plane. From Nick's comments in the video, it seemed clear to me he'd accepted Andi's decision and while he was clearly still hurt, a little angry, he was kind of over it. He makes it clear he didn't try to change her mind, he seemed particularly annoyed by the fact that as he stated, the one thing she kept saying throughout the season was how easy everything was with him and yet when it came down to it, I guess one of the reasons she gave him for not picking him was that it was too hard. And then he clearly references the Jason season in the video stating that Andi is too stubborn to change her mind and that it wouldn't happen. I guess somebody could claim that when he had more time to think about it he had a change of heart and thought he could change her mind but I don't really buy it. I think this "trying to win her back" thing was planted by the show, to fit right along with their "big mysterious" letter to Andi at the end of the MTA to ramp up interest and buzz in the finale since as many have stated, this has been a pretty lackluster season in terms of drama except for the almost forced stuff - JJ/Andrew and of course Nick being some big mastermind villain. And I think it's especially lackluster to the media/public coming off the hot ass mess that was Juan Pablo's season. My guess is Andi will make her pick, yes likely Josh, Nick will be there at the reunion, there will be the requisite Bachelorette/F2 conversation, maybe CH will ask him about some of the guys not liking him or whatever and that will be it. Josh will come out, he and Andi will gush about their love and everyone will move on to BIP. eta: While not a spoiler, I will say that assuming all the evidence is correct and Josh is Andi's pick, I'm a bit surprised at CH's most recent blog. CH is not only the host of the show, he's a producer and yeah while they try to hide the winner and build some suspense, he often does try to sell the pairing, particularly towards the end. That was the thing I remember that stood out to me with Des' season, that while RS and everyone seemed certain Brooks did return and that's who Des was engaged to, CH made it more than obvious in his blogs that he was not a fan. And I remembered being confused as to why he was setting up such a negative image of them when they have to sell the couple after the season ends. And lo and behold she didn't get engaged to Brooks. Again not saying Andi does not pick Josh and CH certainly hasn't given the impression he dislikes Josh but he keeps stating in his blogs and other comments made that Josh is the comfortable choice, the been there done that for Andi and he keeps equating her choosing to Nick as her willing to be daring and brave. He almost makes it sound like her choosing Josh would be lazy of her. And so close to the finale, I just don't get why he would frame the winning couple that way. But it'll be interesting to see how they act at the live reunion show.

I don't know, while there are things about Andi that bug me, I thought she did a fairly good job addressing the guys and explaining sending them home. With Marquel she basically admitted they were in the friend-zone and when he asked why they never got out of it, she pretty much said that sometimes it really is a matter of it just not being there and it wasn't with them. And for Chris and Marcus both she pretty much made it clear I thought that it was a matter of her having a stronger connection with other guys and as she stated, if she knew it wasn't there, it wasn't going anywhere, felt it best and fair to send them home. It's also what she said to Cody even though he still seemed kind of delusional with his maintaining that she didn't "get to know the real Cody" (which by the way it's the most obnoxious thing to refer to oneself in the third person). And it's like "she didn't get to know the real Cody" because she didn't want to because she knew she had zero attraction to him. Even as I think Andi chose Josh, I rarely read into these type of things. Until the finale episode airs, all the parties involved have to still sell the possibility of either pairing. It reminded me of some who used Emily blatantly copping to Arie being an amazing kisser in her media interviews while the season was airing, as proof positive she had to have chosen him because no way would she say things like that if she'd chosen someone else.Not to mention that honestly, I can believe Andi wanting to know what the lies were just out of natural curiosity. I don't buy that. Ron may have just spoken but they'd been sitting there for how many minutes with Marquel speaking to him, the situation/confrontation had been between him and Marquel which is what they were rehashing, he claims that Marquel was someone he thought was a friend, he claims that the accusation and confrontation they had affected his work - to me, with something like that, you don't confuse and mix up names because it's too significant. Not to mention it's not like he was addressing Marquel and accidentally said Ron. He proceeded to give a whole explanation about the confrontation again between him and Marquel, using Ron's name until Marquel and Ron both looked confused and corrected him. Look I'm not saying Andrew is for sure is a racist and I'm not saying he used the word "blackies" but I do think he came across as a smug, superior douche and his little slip was more evidence of how little he actually gave a shit about the situation and those involved.

Katie was trying to increase awareness of colon cancer and show people how simple the test is and maybe help save their lives since her husband died of colon cancer. Little different than airing your ultrasound on television, especially when it's all for show because the baby's sex was already revealed to a major entertainment publication. And I like JP and Ashley well enough but come on now. By the way, about the big dramatic letter, apparently a show producer has already revealed on social media that it's actually from Chris, I guess still sticking with his whole secret admirer schtick. CH probably said it was from one of her F2 for dramatic purposes so everyone will think it's from whichever guy that gets dumped in the finale, doing a last ditch effort for her. And I guess if you remove whoever she picks and is likely currently engaged to, Chris and the the guy she doesn't pick, sort of is her F2.

I forgot about the show and tuned in about 15 minutes in and saw JP and Ashley having a real ultrasound on the show and quickly changed the channel. While I still think Ashley was one of the weepiest Bachelorettes ever, I do think she and JP are cute and I am happy for her that she found love from the show but yeah, I don't need to see their ultrasound on television. Just reading the short media stories from People magazine is more than enough. I did eventually turn back to the show and well it was pretty much the same as every other Tell All show - a complete and utter waste of time. There were a few cute moments here and there but for the most part, it's just a rehash of things that's already happened and half of the guys get ignored. I realized other Nick of the season almost pulled an Eric on Andi with his comments to her that he basically felt like when she was talking to him at times she couldn't be bothered. I do think Andi made a decent effort to get to know a number of the guys but at the end of the day she isn't some great actress (which is funny since Eric made the Hollywood actress comment) and she couldn't always hide when she had zero interest with some of the guys. I love that Marcus is still trying to sell this great love he had for Andi and this amazing heartbreak he went through with her sending him home yet and not to mention we now know he was bullshitting about how many women he's slept with. I found Chris condescending and annoying at many points tonight, Andrew is still smarmy to me and while he may not have said exactly what JJ said he did, I don't believe he didn't say something obnoxious. His not even caring enough to know the difference between Ron and Marquel was telling imo - that little slip was a dead giveaway. That said, JJ is very shifty and oily. He also sucks at confrontations. eta: One cute moment - during the bloopers section where the showed the camera person basically crashing into something in Nick's parents' house and his stating that he made that for his mom in the second grade, so thanks. His face in that moment as all the plates kept crashing was hilarious.

I definitely think that was the implication the show wanted to convey with CH specifically stating that it was from one of her F2. It will be the big "dramatic" thing going into the live reunion show next week.

I don't know, I understood why Dorothy and Sophia were upset at Michael. Again, if he and Bridget wanted to have sex so badly they could have gone to a motel but hooking up after knowing each other for a day in the same house that both their parents were living in was putting everyone in an unnecessarily uncomfortable and awkward position. And I really think that is what Dorothy and Sophia were most upset about. Rose is the one who really went off the handle because she had her stupid naive blinders on that her daughter was an adult woman who had long been having sex.

I don't think it was the sex per se but the fact that it was their children and they essentially had a hook-up in one of their beds. I think it had more to do with the situation being awkward more than anything else.

A boring Sunday afternoon led me to catch the first twenty minutes of the first episode and I was honestly left just baffled. Because I naturally assumed this show was solely for the purpose of spinning their very negative image and trying to convince people their marriage isn't shit but honestly, all this did was confirm most of the negative things people already thought about them. Barely five minutes into the episode, they're bitching at each other in the limo on their way to the premiere of the movie (in which Eddie's co-starring role is really just a cameo), LeAnn is getting emotional and Eddie is looking like he could give a shit about her feelings and is honestly annoyed at her tears. And then there was all the Brandy snarking/bitching. I mean are they really that deluded to think that anyone would think that shit is funny and think positively about them? Yes Brandy may be whatever she is but how is being just as catty and hateful as her making them look any better? As someone noted above, they need to do a three-way couples counseling because they are all hot messes - Eddie, Leann and Brandy. But personally I think Eddie is the real factor in all this. He clearly enjoys these weak, clearly unstable women he can manipulate. And they basically lose themselves trying to keep him. LeAnn is clearly so desperate to keep him in that marriage and he's just tolerating her until he can cash in something bigger. That's probably his motivation for doing the reality show - probably hoping some Kardashian type fame/money/success comes from it so he can no longer have to stick around with LeAnn and her millions. However this mess is so going to go the way of Tori and Dean's hot mess, assuming the show even lasts. Well she had more fame and money than him when everything went down. Sure LeAnn was no longer the huge star in country music that she was when she was a teenager but she was doing very well for herself from touring and had a dedicated fanbase and was still a fairly known celebrity, certainly more so than Eddie and Brandy, with her nice, quiet simple life and marriage.

YMMV because I've personally never considered being passive aggressive this massive personality disorder but maybe that's just me. Largely because frankly I think most people at some point in their lives have been passive aggressive about something - some are just more consistent with the behavior and do it far more often than others. But honestly, I think I'm just over this. Like I said I feel like I'm heading down the rabbit hole of crazy that was Emily's season where everything was nitpicked and judged to death particularly about the final two contestants (which is funny of course because the one genuine relationship that came out of that season was Arie and Jef's friendship). At this point I am just ready for Andi and Josh to have their media blitz talking about their amazing love story and Nick to go back to his life and everyone can move on.

Was that the spoof video thing he did where it looked like he was having a meltdown on the plane? I vaguely remember reading about this - that a Bachelor producer got into it with a flight attendant and the whole thing ended up being one big fake/joke. As for the Nick-video, while I have never questioned its being real, why do people keep saying Nick "trashed" Andi and Josh? I guess Josh I can sort of understand with the comment about his doing nothing but eating, sleeping and shitting or whatever else. And granted I only skimmed the video that one time when RS first put it up on his site but as I recall, all Nick really said about Andi was that she went with what she knew and was comfortable with. Then I think whoever he was speaking to might have suggested her changing her mind like Jason did in his season and Nick says that's unlikely because Andi is too stubborn to change her mind. Then he talked about loving her parents and loving the relationship she has with them. I guess I just don't see where the bashing was. Personally I just want this season over with because it's starting to reach Emily's season level of crazy and ridiculous. Andi and Josh can move on with their shiny, brunette tanned lives - may they not end up as the 80 percent of other couples that have come out of the show and Nick can get back to his life.

I don't know if it matters much - Darren stated multiple times all last summer that while marriage equality was great it didn't mean that it was a good idea for two teenagers to rush off and get engaged. And well as we all know, Season 5 happened.

The moment that's always high on my list for the worst is definitely Rose's reaction after finding her daughter and Michael in bed together. I was fine with Rose's ridiculous naivete that her daughter was some special snowflake virgin but the way she quickly snapped into mean-spirited mode about Michael really bothered me. Dorothy was supposed to be her best friend and she not only calls the woman's son a loser but implies he took advantage of her precious daughter. And then after all that, she gets all indignant and offended at Dorothy calling her daughter a tramp for hooking up with a guy she'd only known for a few hours. Sure Dorothy was harsh with that comment but I felt like at that point she was just responding to Rose's attitude in kind. And I hated that Blanche wanted her to go and apologize to Rose and I liked that Dorothy said that she had feelings too. Because it was perfectly okay for Rose to insult her son but precious, delicate Rose can't handle hearing anything negative about her daughter.

No they weren't separated because Sophia makes a crack about Angela's cooking. I think it's why she brought her suitcase of sauce or something.

Yes, but once again, the point as I remember the episode is that Dorothy was clearly nervous about giving the eulogy, wasn't sure what she wanted to say and was therefore asking Rose for some advice and guidance by asking if she'd ever had to give a eulogy at a funeral. And that's where the discontinuity lies because she would have known that yes, Rose was asked to give the eulogy at her aunt's funeral since she had been even more nervous about it than Dorothy was about Phil and Dorothy and Blanche had to go with her to the funeral. Yes, they never made it there because of the hurricane but the point is, it made no sense for Dorothy to ask Rose that question.

Wasn't sure in which thread to post this since it is more a general observation on the show rather than a specific episode/season. Like many others who've posted above, I was a dedicated viewer for a number of seasons but have found my interest waning in the later years, particularly once the show went to one night a week. But it's still programmed into my DVR and I spent a few hours catching up on the season and I pinpointed something that really bothers me - ENOUGH with the damn "relationship" stories, particularly with the contemporary dances. Yes contemporary has a lot of flailing, legs spread eagle all over the place, but I swear in past seasons, they used to involve more stories and themes than just "it's about a couple breaking up, it's about a couple fighting to stay together, it's about a couple who can't let go, etc. etc." Say what you will about Mia Michaels, as annoying and bitchy as she could be, she at least came up with different and interesting concepts for her contemporary dances - how can anyone forget Evan and Brandy's dog/butt dance, Kayla and Kupono's Addiction dance, Mark and Chelsie's Tim Burton Wedding dance, Billy/Ade/Alex's Time piece, etc. And the same could be said about Wade. Now I feel like it's all a one-trick pony with all the dances and it's unfortunate for the dancers who many times are dancing brilliantly and simply doing what is asked for them but I swear, the second I hear "this piece is about a couple…" in a rehearsal package, I just check out. Because I just feel like no matter how well danced, choreographed, I'll just come away feeling like I've seen it all before.

Dorothy's question to Rose was "were you ever asked to give a eulogy". And so the point stands because yes, she was, for her aunt that she couldn't stand.

No, before Sophia leaves, Dorothy specifically states how the four boys were giving up their room for Sophia...she was definitely staying with them.

I guess it's just an agree to disagree because I've found Andi more in interrogation mode with Josh and even as he's been no favorite of mine, there were times I felt bad for him. Sharleen's posting the dialogue from the day part of their date before HTD's was a perfect example. Andi kept making these weird passive aggressive comments while Josh expressed excitement about seeing his family and telling them about their adventure so far. Then there was that weird drama after the lie detector test. And then there are the times where she keeps saying again how it feels to good to be true, her gut feels concerned, etc. That's why he's had to go on and on and on about not being typecast.

Thank you. That's how I remembered it but I wasn't sure. Because I remember he was dressed casually, like for a day portion of a date when she let him go.

I wasn't referring to just that episode. Back in the second episode I think, the week Nick didn't even go on any dates, when he and Andi talk at the cocktail party, she mentions feeling like he can read her mind and mentions just feeling like they connect on a mental level. She expanded that to their connecting on a philosophical level after their first 1 on 1. During his first group date was when she started talking about feeling the most comfortable when she's with him and feeling like when he looks at her and kisses her he sees exactly who she is. And she repeated that line multiple times after. The whole passion thing with Nick didn't actually start coming up until Belgium. It specifically stood out to me because up until that point, I'd assumed what the editing was going for was showing her connecting on an emotional level with Nick versus having the physical connection/passion with Josh. Sort of how Emily's season was played out with Jef and Arie. So I was surprised when they started showing her talking about how passionate things were with Nick and how she'd never experienced anything so intense. As for the stuff with Josh, yes she mentioned him putting up with her when she's difficult but honestly, going by what we've been shown, Josh has been the one who's dealt the most with Andi's more negative side. I don't know if it's the whole "I'm not sure if I want to trust another athlete thing" but she's definitely grilled him and given him a third degree more so than others. Going by her facial/physical reactions and well her words, when talking about their make-out both when he came to see her in her hotel room and when he grabbed her first at the cocktail party, I find that hard to believe. Andi looked like she was practically tingling when talking about hot kissing Nick was on those streets of Belgium and how when he kissed her she felt like she could feel every part of him. Basically this. The first Bachelorette season I ever followed very closely in the online fandom was Emily's and boy was that a hot-bed of crazy. The biggest thing I came away with from that experience is that anyone can see anything when it pertains to whatever guy/girl they're "rooting" for. Believe me I read enough body language analysis to wonder if Bachelor viewers were all a bunch of profilers. For me personally, I've said it before, while I like Nick, I'm not invested in Andi picking him and won't care if she doesn't. I called him and Josh as F2 early enough and that turned out to be right. IMHO, I think Andi looks genuinely interested in both Josh and Nick which is why I was saying I was interested in hearing her reasons for why her heart leaned one way. Sure we can nitpick every gesture, body language, kiss but personally I watched both dates and yeah there was heat between Josh and Andi and a physical connection. But I really and truly saw the same with her date with Nick. I noticed Andi playing with Josh's leg and stroking his thigh all while they were speaking and thought that was pretty cute and maybe telling of their intimacy level. However when I watched her date with Nick, she's stroking Nick's leg and touching him in small ways throughout much of their interaction at night. When he's telling her he loves her, she's playing with his pockets, stroking his waist. When Andi kisses both Nick and Josh, there is no pulling back from her with either - she goes full in with both And speaking of perception. Chris Harrison's blog for the week is interesting. I have to say I find it interesting how CH has always defended Nick even while the show, of which he is a producer, was clearly editing him as a villain. He's always maintained every week that Nick is not a bad person and is actually a great guy and we all know he hasn't had problems making it obvious when he was not a fan of someone - see Juan Pablo and poor, poor Brooks. But more importantly he sums up the Nick and Josh situation by calling Josh Andi's "comfort zone", what she's been used to and declares Nick the guy who will challenge her and push her in ways she's never known. So go figure...

I also think the laughter was in response to Rose's comment immediately after Clayton made the announcement, that brothers and sisters can't marry each other and then she mentioned how she forgot, they were from the South. I've watched that episode plenty and it really seemed the laughter was in response to Rose's cluelessness. Also, during their confrontation, Angela mentioned Sophia not wanting to set foot in their house but in the episode where Rose was dating Jonathan Newman, Sophia leaves at the start of the episode to attend one of the Phil's children's graduation.

I certainly never meant to infer that Nick was "owed" an explanation for why he is not Andi's pick if she picks Josh. But that I was merely curious what she would say because yes, she could simply say "I prefer Josh" but as pointed out, this is a show and it rarely works out like that. Look how long her sending Chris home was dragged out. So no, I don't think Nick is owed anything and I have certainly never judged Andi for "leading him on". As I stated above, I like Nick but have zero investment in Andi picking him. Yeah I'm sure it won't be fun being dumped on national television but I'm sure he'll be just fine and move on with his life. I also would not use his being heartbroken for 6 months over someone he had 7 years of back and forth with as some sign that he can't handle break-ups, especially when that "break-up" comes from some woman he only knew a few weeks. I imagine once back in the real world, Nick like many others got over their stockholmed haze.

One glaring continuity error was in the episode when Phil dies and Dorothy is nervous about giving the eulogy and asks Rose if she's ever given a eulogy at a funeral. This is particularly glaring because there was an entire episode in the first or second season that revolved around Rose having to give the eulogy at her aunt's funeral, where the girls all used it to face their fears.

Nope, I share your view. To be fair, I was pretty honest from the first episode that gym-rat/weight-lifting jocks with too blinding white teeth do nothing for me. Frankly jocks in general do nothing for me. It's the same reason I never found anything hot or attractive about Sean from Emily's season. I have always been far more attracted to the more unconventional looking guys. There's also one other explanation with regards to Nick - he wasn't playing a game and wasn't interested in auditioning to be the next Bachelor. And that while he was accused of strategizing, the person who was really guilty of strategizing may have been the one accusing him of it. And because he wasn't, is exactly why he was fine being openly "salty", fine with not worrying about being "one of the guys" and in his own words, "interested in being in a frat." Maybe the simple truth is there was no ulterior motive and Nick was just being himself and pursuing Andi as best as he could. Crazy thought I know... To be clear, I've always stated that I believe many of these people are guilty of being stockholmed while in the bubble which is why so few of the relationships from this show have lasted. This is why I made sure to state that I believed Nick to be genuine at that time - in other words that when he was in that bubble, caught up in all things Andi I do think he really did believe he was in love and so was genuine when telling her that. And I don't discount Josh probably being in the same state. They are all cut off from everything and are basically consumed by all things Andi and let's not forget the producers in their ear manipulating to get them to fall even harder. So I'm not necessarily saying Josh was being deliberately disingenuous. My disagreement was in the notion that because Nick "um'ed" and "like" all throughout his declaration to Andi that it was somehow less genuine than Josh's. Because like I said, I think it was more that even while caught up in the bubble, there was the small part of Nick that clearly still recognized that this whole thing lends itself to just falling completely flat on your face and that the circumstances are far from ideal or natural. Can't speak for anyone else but it's not so much I find Josh's dating life a character failing or flaw but more that I don't buy it. I just think there's a significant part of the story he's leaving out to Andi. Of course I may be way off base but it's a gut feeling. I don't think it's necessarily that he's trying to be deceitful, just that he's presenting this sanitized version of things to her. I don't know, I just don't buy the "I haven't had any relationships/haven't dated in 5 years but after 6 weeks, you're all it for me..." Nope, sorry something about it just rings my b.s. meter. I've thought that Andi would choose Josh since about Episode 2 or 3 and that Nick would be the F2 and I have zero issue with that. I like Nick, but I'm serious when I say I pretty much always lay odds on the relationship coming from this show failing anyway so I don't think it'll be some great loss to him if she picks Josh. Though I'm sure he'd naturally be hurt at the time. That being said, as the season has winded down, I admit to being curious to seeing how and what Andi says if she does let Nick go and picks Josh. Because while the editing has certainly played up the physical connection with Josh and Andi, they keep showing her talking about how connected she feels to Nick on every level. That's a factor that has remained constant with Andi throughout the season with regards to Nick - that she just feels so comfortable and so herself with him and then on top of that she talks about his kisses and their makeouts like it causes every part of her to tingle. So I am curious to hear the reason she gives for why she doesn't pick him and to her credit I think she's been fairly articulate in letting both Chris and Marcus go. Of course I recognize that the editing may have just hidden the strength of her and Josh's relationship and I said as much a few weeks ago. That if she picks him, I think the editing would have done them a disservice because they were far more focused on her showing her doubts about him and making Nick a villain.

I guess for me the difference is kind of simple. In the ITM he's basically just stating his thoughts and feelings to a camera and camera guy. That's a little different than having Andi right in front of him, staring directly at him waiting for him to tell he loves her.