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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

HollaMcDollar

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Posts posted by HollaMcDollar

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    Speaking of Charlie dying.... What does everyone think the clause was that Charlie referenced just before he kicked the bucket? Did Ms. Fonda secretly provide him w/ sole authority to make personnel decisions?

    There is one other issue w/ the sale of ACN... I know they had to do it to raise the $4 billion needed to buyout the evil step-twins but wouldn't spining off ACN sink the entire hostile takeover deal that the step-twins had worked out anyway by making the parent company not worth as much money and not worth taking over w/out ACN? Hopefully that makes sense.

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    Rule 412. Sex-Offense Cases: The Victim

    (a) Prohibited Uses. The following evidence is not admissible in a civil or criminal proceeding involving alleged sexual misconduct:

    (1) evidence offered to prove that a victim engaged in other sexual behavior; or

    (2) evidence offered to prove a victim’s sexual predisposition.

    I'm honestly not sure about the naming issue but more often than not, especially in cases w/ minors, only initials are used when referencing the victim in most court documents and appellate opinions.

    • Love 1

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    If someone set up a website to out unprosecuted murderers and child molestors or if a news agency wanted to bring on an accused child molester and the kid who accused him to have it out on live TV, I'd react exactly the same way. It's actually rape victims who get special treatment in the naming issue; the press purposely doesn't name them out of respect and support, as opposed to victims of other crimes who are typically named unless they're minors.

    Rule 412 of the Fed Rules of Evidence also contains special considerations for Sex Abuse victims not provided to other crime victims.

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    Sorkin has responded to all the online buzz about this episode:

    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/aaron-sorkin-responds-to-newsroom-writers-campus-rape-plot-reaction/

    Let me take a moment to say that I understand that the story in last night’s episode (305–”Oh Shenandoah”) about Don trying to persuade a Princeton student named Mary (Sarah Sutherland) not to engage in a “Crossfire”-style segment on his show has catalyzed some passionate debate this morning. I’m happy to hear it.

    It catalyzed some passionate debate in our writers room too. Arguments in the writers room at The Newsroom are not only common, they’re encouraged. The staff’s ability to argue with each other and with me about issues ranging from journalistic freedom vs. national security to whether or not Kat Dennings should come back and save the company is one of their greatest assets and something I look for during the hiring process. Ultimately I have to go into a room by myself and write the show but before I do I spend many days listening to, participating in and stoking these arguments. As with any show, I have to create a safe environment where people can disagree and no one fears having their voice drowned out or, worse, mocked.

    Alena Smith, a staff writer who joined the show for the third season, had strong objections to the Princeton story and made those objections known to me and to the room. I heard Alena’s objections and there was some healthy back and forth. After a while I needed to move on (there’s a clock ticking) but Alena wasn’t ready to do that yet. I gave her more time but then I really needed to move on. Alena still wouldn’t let me do that so I excused her from the room.

    The next day I wrote a new draft of the Princeton scenes–the draft you saw performed last night. Alena gave the new pages her enthusiastic support. So I was surprised to be told this morning that Alena had tweeted out her unhappiness with the story. But I was even more surprised that she had so casually violated the most important rule of working in a writers room which is confidentiality. It was a room in which people felt safe enough to discuss private and intimate details of their lives in the hope of bringing dimension to stories that were being pitched. That’s what happens in writers rooms and while ours was the first one Alena ever worked in, the importance of privacy was made clear to everyone on our first day of work and was reinforced constantly. I’m saddened that she’s broken that trust.

    • Love 2

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    Can someone explain how Lily Hart and Snowden are related?  Unrelated?  Are they both whistleblowers in the same universe, even if one is real?  News Night never aired the story because of the DOJ mess with Will?  I'm so confused!  Please explain like I'm a woman on this show, so big letters and small words.

    The Lily Hart story is a combination of several high profile leak cases over the past 10 years, including:

    1. The Bradley Manning case w/ Neal playing the part of Juliann Assange who allegedly walked BM through the steps to get the docs off the US Gov server and uploaded to wiki leaks.

    2. The James Rosen/North Korea State Dept Leaker w/ Neal playing the role of a journalist labeled as an unindicted coconspirator by the USGov.

    3. The original NSA leakers/former NY Times reporter James Risen case.

    4. Some Snowden elements w/ Neal vanishing to a country w/ no extradition treaty.

    5. I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two more but hopefully this helps.

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    You are correct that students that have been raped can go the civil lawsuit way. But those cases, I believe and please someone correct me if I am wrong, cost money, money that the student needs to have to pay for lawyers. This is only possible for a few privileged people. I am old but in my circles, no one - or their children - would be able to afford a civil lawsuit

    Being a personal injury attorney myself I can tell you that almost all PI cases are taken on a contingency fee basis- meaning you don't pay unless you win (or we get a settlement).

    • Love 2

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    The problem is, it does not happen this way. We can see by how much the Universities try to "handle" the cases internally, instead of treating rape as the crime it is.

     

    Yes, some people will be falsely accused. But the episode was showing a woman who did all she had to and was ignored. She is an example of what happens to too many women in colleges and universities. She wasn't trying to paint herself as someone she is not, she admitted to drinking. But she did not consent and that is the point. In this case, she wasn't even heard. And like her, there are many. I can relate to the feeling of "what do I have to lose".

    The way a university handles a case has no bearing on whether you can bring a civil lawsuit- in fact, university indifference can actually bolster your case if you are also bringing a negligence claim against the school.

    I'm of the opinion that a school really has no business adjudicating rape claims anyway- it should be treated as the serious allegation that it is and handled by law enforcement.

    • Love 3

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    So Sorkin decides to emulate the least attractive Whedonism ever. Bully for him. 

     

    I"m curious - an innocent man getting his life ruined because of a false accusation is terrible. And it is more terrible than all the future women being raped because this rapist got away with it. And it is more painful for society than justice for the woman who just had her life ruined because she was raped, and who was, in all likelihood symbolically raped again when she went to report it? Because she asked for it in some way, I guess. while the man was just walking around minding his business? Why is his pain worse than hers?

    This wasn't directed towards me but I don't think anyone is saying that. Not to mention, even if the criminal justice avenue is closed, the victim still has civil remedies w/in which she can bring a claim against the alleged attacker. If she succeeds he won't get prison time but he'll still be branded a rapist and forced to pay a monetary judgment to the victim (and likely against the university/fraternity/etc.) - obviously money doesn't heal all wounds but it's the best remedy we have to compensate a victim for their loss.

    • Love 2

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    Here is what the Google says:

    As a result, the mean tends to be higher than the median income, with the top earning households boosting it. Overall, the mean household income in the United States, according to the US Census Bureau 2004 Economic Survey, was $60,528, or $17,210 (39.73%) higher than the median household income.

    So, either way, it seems Sloan was a little off.....

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    Is the average income of a family of four in the United States really around $30 000? That is a bit low, is it not? As someone with advance degree in economics who follows economic activities rigorously, that is one point that Sloan can not be wrong about.

     

    However, Wikipedia gives $51 939 as median household income, not mentioning the size of the household and not mentioning anything about average.

    I think that seems a little low maybe; the poverty level for a family of four is around $23k, IIRC. I think the more accurate figure for a true average would be something around $36-$40k... but that is just my guess from reading various articles on the issue over the past few years.

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    I intended to watch but  I always read reviews first. I don't watch it live and I don't care about spoilers.

     

    ...

    There was nuance in the rape story. It wasn't black and white, but that doesn't mean it wasn't offensive. Others have mentioned instances where it derailed. To me, it was going fine until Don brought up Sloan's ex. The two situations so vastly differ, I couldn't figure out why he'd bring it up. Women telling their rape stories online is not the same as an ex vindictively posting naked photos....

    I was dreading Maggie and Jim and I was right. I would have FF if On Demand let me.

    First- if you have HBO OnDemand you should also have HBOGO- and HBoGO allows fast forwarding.... You'll have to watch on comp or iPad- unless you have appleTV or other service w/ HBO GO app plunged into your TV

    I thought the comparion was sufficiently analogous, so long as the rape allegation is false and done out of revenge- which is the point Don was making to the girl. He wasn't saying posting all non-prosecutable rape claims was leaking nudes; he was saying posting untrue rape claims and posting nudes of an ex are both revenge based acts meant to hurt an innocent person.

    • Love 1

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    · Edited by HollaMcDollar

    That's actually the one thing I disliked about last night's episode. I thought this was convenient and a bit of a cop-out, like Sorkin wrote himself into a bit of a corner and didn't know how to get out. Really, the govt just should have relented for the reasons Lesenthal gave: arresting Will was supposed to be coercive, not punitive, and that wasn't working. The govt doesn't actually want to lock up random people for no reason, and I do think they'd have cracked first.

    That said, though, I wonder too if the story was reported. At first, I thought it was and that Lily lost it being under so much pressure, but now that you all have brought this up, I'm not so sure.

    Didn't you find it a bit ridiculous that the government couldn't figure out who the leaker was in almost two months- or until she shot herself and the friend turned over the info?

    _____________________________________________________________________________________

    Having read a few more reviews of this episode and noticing that most just turn into personal venting session rather than reviews of the episode, I have one more point to bring up about the rape issue and then I think I'm done....

    I didn't see this as Sorkin "mansplaining or rapesplaining" (two fake words I absolutely hate); I saw this as him presenting various sides of this issue and forcing people to actually think about it as a very difficult issue, along w/ the very serious consequences of taking certain actions (that includes both men putting themselves in situations where consent might be questionable & the costs to those wrongly accused of rape, even if it's only 2% (although I don't know where that number came from)). What's lost in much of the collectivist groupthink in many reviews is the actual conversation talking place in the various comment sections- and for that reason, I view this episode as a success.

    • Love 2

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    · Edited by HollaMcDollar

    There is another reason the news isn't the place to air out claims of rape- defamation, libel & slander suits. Rolling Stone might be learning this the hard way very soon. Even in last nights episode, we as the audience and Don as the producer still don't know what really happened to that girl. That might make some uncomfortable but it is a fact.

    I'd add one more point- doesn't Mary still have her website to bring her story and the larger issue to the forefront?

    • Love 4

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    Don's view this week is also consistent w/ the story in season premier about how citizen journos on reddit did serious damage during the Boston Marathon Bombers hunt.

    So, am I the only one who thinks Will never did actually know who the source was?

    I have also thought that maybe Will never knew the source.

    • Love 2

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    · Edited by HollaMcDollar

    Yes, he was absolutely right. Just like Mac was right not to let that kid come out on News Night last season. The news isn't a courtroom, and I have no interest in crime as public theater. Solving crimes by vigilante is hugely dangerous, and I agree that our justice system is set up to protect victims. That was Don's point.

    Rolling Stone screwed EVERYBODY. If the girl is lying, the story ruined innocent lives. If she's telling the truth, no court will ever believe her. Hell, most of the public won't believe her. She's branded a liar. And that's the reason we're not supposed to try people in the press. That RS story was had a clear agenda, was crime as public theater, and it's appalling.

    Great post.

    It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

    • Love 2

    S03.E05: Oh Shenandoah

    in The Newsroom [V]

    · Edited by HollaMcDollar

    I haven't watched the episode yet but between Tara's and Buzzfeed's review, I think I am better off. Sounds like a disturbing view on rape victims to say the least.

    I found it rather nuanced; it is a difficult, emotional issue to discuss, to be sure, but I found it rather gutsy that he went at it in this way- especially with what happened in the news this week.

    Hopefully I don't take too much heat for saying this.

    • Love 10

    S03.E04: Contempt

    in The Newsroom [V]

    There are exceptions to the spousal privilege. I don't think they fit here or that there is enough time to use them. But they exist.

    One notable exception to spousal privilege is conversations that occurred before you were married- in this case, the conversation that Mac also knows the identity of the source.

    • Love 4
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