sunflower

I never really believed we get Winds before season 6, but hearing the backstory is depressing. I think I'd rather be ignorant of what GRRM is really thinking. Before his post, I thought we might get Winds by end of 2016 earliest. Maybe still? It is sort of disturbing to know he finished the first 3 books of five 15 years ago in a shorter time span than the last 2 books, which, generally, aren't as beloved. I was a show watcher first, but read all the books between seasons 3 and 4, was that a mistake? Because I now consider myself a disappointed book reader. Sigh.

Well, makes sense, but if they're not willing to take a little extra time to make the show better, then they'll just have to deal with the criticism they do receive. Of course, them being rewarded with Emmys for their weakest season, may make that criticism ring lightly. However, I just don't see that they don't realize how weak the Dorne section of the story was this year. I mean, other things you can argue, Olly for instance, ugh, but the suckage of Dorne stuck out like a sore, shitty thumb. And what really sucked is they forced that story on Jaime, another bias, I love Jaime.

For the D&D comments made the last few pages regarding the last couple of seasons being weaker: I don't understand why they just don't take more time -as opposed to 12 months, why not 18 months, it's not the end of the world to wait an extra 6 months to have a better quality season, 10 episodes or not. Dorne, anyone? Season 5 was the weakest season even with the brilliant Hardhome set piece and good acting by SD as Stannis. I also think they overemphasize the significance of Cersei, but I'm biased as I hate the character, book and show.

This finale left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't hate Noah, but was this redemption of sorts necessary? The hoops they had to create to get Helen as the driver of that car, beginning with her mother paying for the wedding and having Helen as her date? Please. And don't get me started on Allison...she pushes him right into the car? That's so soapy and not in the good way. Also, as bad as Scotty was, was I supposed to believe he would try to rape Allison in his final moments? Scotty was an asshole, but a believable one, now he's going to rape his former sister-in-law, which makes Allison the victim and so we don't feel any pity whatsoever for Scotty. And Cole, the only one in the dark about all of it. Why did Allison want to get involved with Lobster Roll 2.0 knowing she was keeping this huge secret from her ex? How was that going to play out well? Just didn't like it. Very plotty as I suppose this episode had to be, but it felt like we were returning to some of the worst aspects of season 1. The feeling of Noah and Allison against the world is not something I enjoy. Is this series going to end with Cole and Luisa raising Joannie?

That doesn't make it okay. And Avery will remember. I just hate the idea of everyone forgiving Juliette with Avery being the lone holdout and being made to feel the one in the wrong. I'm afraid they're going to play it that Avery will lose Cadence to Juliette because she's rich and the mother and, of course, famous, while he'll lose custody because his money situation isn't the greatest. Sounds like Tacos.

This episode just about broke my heart. I couldn't stop crying and still feel teary. And Ted Danson's speech about one language at the end? It killed me, man. I just finished binge watching season 1 and was so happy to see the little kid versions of Numbers and Wrench.

I disagree. It's the Henry/Mary that comes across as lazy. OTOH, Mary/Tom, at least, appears to have been developed over 3-4 seasons since the death of their respective spouses. It may be icky to some, but not lazy. I'll be disappointed and bored with Henry as Mary's endgame, but not surprised.

Well, let's ask ourselves, are most fans of DA casual or board-centric? I have seen on other boards, certain people say that fans overthink. The worst thing about Brary not happening is what others have said, the sad misuse of Tom. I really don't get why they didn't have him come back with an American wife. IMO, that would've been the best story for him, non-Brary-wise. It'd be a story for up and downstairs with Carson complaining, the family having difficulty with her, but on a lesser scale then Bunting. They'd all come together in the end somehow. Honestly, I'd prefer it because it would mean JF cared about Tom as an individual character, as opposed to Tom's Mary-centric scenes with a Talbot ending. It's just so lame. It seems Tom is a stalker of both Henry and Mary. It's like, unless dude is secretly in love with Mary, may I suggest getting a life? I mean, the question is why does Tom care so much? I don't see him investing this much in Edith's love life.

Maybe Henry and Miss Edmunds will get together, so Henry doesn't really "lose" Mary to Tom? I mean she works for Edith and might be around, right? hope, hope, hope...

Yep. And Sybbie and Marigold holding hands in the distance doesn't not give me a "Shining" vibe. Or does this mean Georgie is a Brary?

Talbot has seen first hand how much Tom is a part of Mary's life/entourage. Maybe it finally annoys him OR he sees something in episode 7 that gives him pause, but he holds off on until the wedding because of his love for Mary? It's soapy, but hell with it, I want Brary!!

I do agree episode 7 is the key somehow. If it's Tom that Mary is scared for thinking he got hurt, maybe confusion about which car he's driving, and not Henry or just general fear, then Brary has a chance. I think it seems that it's Henry's friend Charlie who gets hurts maybe if it's not about Tom. There has to be a real reason other than giving Tom something to do for his glut of scenes w/Mary and with Mary and Henry. I hope you guys are right that Mary leaves Henry at the altar or something, because that's a wedding dress/suit thing she's wearing, of that I have no doubt. I don't know, Tom is my favorite character, and I just love his relationship with Mary. It would be a good ending. Mary And Henry, whatever. Tom in the shadows, coming back from America to play the part of Mary's best friend/gal pal? Lame.

Is there hope for Brary or are we just being toyed with? http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/downton-abbey-spoiler-michelle-dockery-6453699 http://moviepilot.com/posts/3613773?lt_source=external,manual reviewers are clearly picking up on this, are we crazy?

I think if no Tom/Mary was planned, then they just should've had Tom return from America, maybe a little later, ep 5ish, with an American wife. The audience would have to get to know her along with the Crawleys. There would be tension with a newbie, in a natural way. I just don't get why they didn't do that, if we just get now more of Tom, "I need a life of my own, but here at Downton still, oh here's a pretty editor to flirt with so I can have an offscreen romance after the CS." I think Tom's character is too important to be treated so afterthoughtish, unless Julian F is screwing with us as is AL with him not really loving his ending?? I don't know, it's just so disappointing if Brary doesn't happen with all the scenes they're sharing. I mean, what was the point then? Someone said it, to make us like Henry because Tom does? Dude, I'm not that easily influenced.

I'm curious, as I'm spoiling myself (have to know!), but not actually watching the episodes. Does it seem that Tom is overcompensating by playing matchmaker with Henry and Mary? Oh, he's so awesome, isn't he, sister?!

It made me nervous, like how long is this close-up going to be, and are they going to pull some crap like Cole killed him own brother to get Allison back in his world? I hope I'm way off. I enjoyed watching a Day in the Life of Cole Lockhart. I loved his mostly one-sided convo with Helen's father with everything unspoken interesting. Did that blonde woman who threw up basically say she'd pay him for sex? His life has gone beyond in the toilet as he has lost everything and is now a taxi driver doing coke to stay awake. I actually found Cole hilarious in Allison's version of his visit even though that's the version where he's menacing. All Allison remembers is he had a gun, while all he remembers is how sad and fucked up and alone he is. I find it hard to believe she would be that kind to him in Cole's version. Man, I simply love Joshua Jackson. He is very masculine and intense, the ladies got that right.

I'm so glad I'm not watching. This whole Michael turn around with mob front and center is my worst nightmare. TPTB are tone-deaf, what a shock, but depressing as hell. This wasn't the right way to go to fix Ron's mistakes. They are just so desperately on the Sonny Train, while I will never get past him murdering AJ. I can't watch him in any scene, which is I why I no longer watch the actual show, and just catch up here to know what's up. And, I don't believe they can ever come back from this sea change. Unless, it leads to getting rid of the mob altogether. Like that'll happen. I just don't buy that Michael would ever get involved or be near the mob. What about fear of returning to prison? That would be awesome, have Michael go back to prison, because I'm so angry with the writing for this character now, I want to see his ass punished.

I'd love to know the thought process. Is it that they think that Sonny is the most popular character and the disappointed Sonny Fans will come back now? This emphasis on Sonny as God and his follower friends/family with Michael forgiveness is nauseating and I'm only reading about it. It seems also that Alexis as always will be on the wrong side defending Julian, but the right side in my mind, because she's at her best when fighting the Sonny/Carly Corinthos Asshole Contingent.

Yeah, I'm guessing you're right, but I hate being disappointed before the season even starts. I don't know why actors do that. I had this experience with another show, let's call it Mad Men. Don't tell your audience to "quash" a rumor about a possible coupling that you've heard enough about/been asked about enough to knowingly "quash" it. That's giving away spoilers before the season even starts in the U.K. I thought that was frowned upon. Is it just because they find the possibility so outlandish that it doesn't seem a spoiler to "quash" it or they want to prepare some Brarys for disappointment? or they don't care or they're lying? I feel it's a combo of outlandish and not caring. Sigh. However, one of the producers, Liz Trubridge, said something vague about couples audience want not happening. I can't find it, but will look for it. Found it: "Executive producer Liz Trubridge said: “Although I think a lot of the audience wants certain characters to pair up … that isn’t the way it is going to be." https://uk.celebrity.yahoo.com/post/128736493209/final-downton-abbey-series-will-bring-resolution

Well, that just annoys me more because it's like they know someone like Tom is a good idea, but not Tom himself. Hell, they're even in similar businesses, cars! Wow, it's like they're aware MD and AL have chemistry, but are too afraid to actually do Mary/Tom because of...reasons. I like Matthew Goode, but who cares about this newbie? I wonder if that's why press interviews w/MD have her going on and on about how Mary's ending isn't about romance, but being happy with herself? Blech. http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/09/downton-abbey-last-season-lady-mary-edith

Well, if this is to believed, no Tom/Mary pairing. http://www.digitalspy.com/british-tv/s183/downton-abbey/news/a667618/downton-abbeys-michelle-dockery-you-can-quash-the-tom-and-mary-rumors.html#~pnQowdh4mpXW29 I really hate when actors pull crap like this because they're not supposed to spoil us. Right? Let us have our hopes at least until the UK airings.

I don't know, it's what I want, but photo fox, I believe the 2 hurdles you mention are right on. That's why Tom's entrance into the story and Mary's reaction is key here. If they're to be, I think Mary would be in denial about her feelings and Tom would be aware of his, but push them down because he'd be afraid to lose his entire family. I never get what I want with these TV endgame couples or whatever. I was completely unspoiled for Sybil's death and was afraid for Tom's story after that. I really don't want him coming back to stand in the back or with some American newbie in tow. But, if I let a Tom/Mary ending go, I know I can enjoy the ensemble as I have always loved the show as a whole. I'm been re-watching and simply loving Seasons 4 and 5, except, of course, for boring Bates murder plots. I feel that is one aspect where JF is tone-deaf. They're okay characters, but not beloved, at least for me.

Talk about the "be careful what you wish for" horror show. Please, get rid of Ron, oh yes, new writers, oh no, Carly/Sonny super propping!. I am so glad I'm out, watching wise, but this place, impossible to leave. It's so funny, without this board, and the other famous one from the past, I would've stopped reading about this show, watching it for sure, eons ago. Damn you, brilliant board!

That's why I'll look at Mary's reaction to Tom's return with a microscope in tow. As I'm sure many of us will.

It is the most sensible, yet romantic ending at the same time. I wonder how deep in the season it will take for us to know if it's happening or not happening. Or will it be a CS surprise, which feels too sudden? Of course, the problem of not doing Tom/Mary is that it's the relationship that has been built up since even season 3. It's the most organic of all of Mary's possible couplings. Now, we have Henry Talbot, who they probably desperately needed a known actor like Matthew Goode to bypass organic storytelling. Andorra, what board did you mean when an insider noted the lack of talk about Tom's story and that there should be?