myril

Couldn't help but picture Jane Espenson with a smirk while writing the script for this episode, mumbling once in a while "pun intended" aimed at the fans. All in all enjoyed the episode, for the Elsa - Emma parts, for campy fairybacks (ignoring, it made not that much sense), little Regina and Rumple, and the introduction of Mitchell's character in the last minutes. The balance between comical relief and serious moment, tension was not good. Give it A- The dialogue was unusually clunky at times though for an Espenson episode. Plot!plot!plot! is not so her thing, but she has some good hand for dialogue. It felt though kinda restricted this time, as if some limits were holding her back. A crow as messenger - how melodramatic. The divine messenger, and usually bringer of bad news. Fitting the drama queen Regina. But Maleficent had the bigger bird in the movie, a raven, take that Evil Queen. The Fairybacks - as camp great, as serious story not working. Bo Peep was the "worst" villain. What didn't work for Zelena though was okay for a one episode villain, all over the top. I loved the costume, finally a colorful villain and not some dark gloomy clothes (normally dislike anything pink, even if its more dusky pink). That she's a butcher in Storybrooke was fun. Anna showing David sword fighting. That had some Buffy ring to it (cute, little girl a vampire hunter, no way, bubbly princess skilled in sword fights, never - her moves reminded me a bit of Xena, which then made me think, that Anna is like first season Gabrielle) Can picture Anna though bugging the soldiers of her father to show her how to fight with sword and other things. But shepherd David fighting an alleged warlord and her minions in a sword fight was still hilarious. In the end it was more about courage and not giving up though than fighting skills. "They found his body in the wreckage of our cart at the bottom of a ravine." I know, that was some serious emotional moment for David, but when he said this line I had a laughing fit, which totally took me out of the scene and the dramatic moment was lost on me. Not saying there had been no car(t) accidents, but still, sounded too much like a modern tale right out of some ABC family young adult drama show. It fits though with his father carrying the guilt to grave, the guilt of selling the twin to save the farm. Imagined for a moment bubbly Anna with her intrepid optimism encountering dark-minded Evil Queen... Question: How did David and Kristoff meet? I mean, I like that they were friends, but was Kristoff doing some world trip as journeyman to become ice master? Did Pabbie sent him on such a trip to learn some things? Don't care about Captain Swan and never found the dashing pirate that charming, but didn't mind him either. This episode though he started to get on my nerves. Is he losing it because he lost with his ship his footing? Does he feels useless? He sounds more and more needy. I hope for the best that Hook is brooding, and this is a build up to some moment for him to find something to be besides courting Emma. Let's forget, that Grumpy seemed to be a guy to somehow fix things in the first cursed Storybrooke, a handy guy so to speak, that Granny was someone taking care of things quite well herself, a practical woman, and let them go and annoy for the fun the baby duty sleep deprived Snow. The only thing I liked about it was, that Snow was for once told that she should take charge. Elsa and Emma bonding - about time Emma has someone to connect to aside family and charming lover. It's what she needs more than anything else at the moment. More of that! And applause to Jennifer Morrison and Georgina Haig. The obvious styrofoam (just wrote storyfoam, lol) aside, they did that in studio and it was outside a hot day or so - and these two manage to look like being actually in a cold place, Georgina not sweating, Jennifer even giving some good freezing. By the way, was this filmed before the ice bucket challenged picked up or while? Blowing it up would have been last resort maybe. Not knowing the statics of the ice mass they could easily have made the ice come tumbling down and crushing them. Not to mention, magic ice wall, who knows if dynamite would even make a dent in it. It bothered me too, and I am not an engineer (only spend maybe too much time with some). Although it bothered me more to hear David say, he would get calls from all over town because of the outage. Good thing we have mobile phones, because most of the nifty cordless and even cord phones in the homes would have not worked, the power from the phone line is not enough for most. And lucky that the cell sites mostly have backup battery for a while. it's easier to keep mobile phones charged than the mobile service running. But the sheriff's office should have a backup generator for its stuff, including phone, to work. Which ones? Mayan, Egyptian, Julian, Hebrew, French Republican or Gregorian calendar (to name a few)? Kidding. The timeline drives me crazy at times too. particular the difference between time on the show and time in our world. Makes it sometimes hard to get the feeling for the development of the characters and pacing of the show. As regular he is always listed, regardless if he is in the episode. As he as a regular is not getting paid just for the time he is on screen, but even in parts for just being available.

Zombies have in invaded Vancouver and kidnapped some of the cast. Not just that Rose McIver and David Anders are filming the upcoming CW series iZombie, Meghan Ory is at the moment filming Dead Rising: Watchtower, based on the video game. And looks like our Blue Fairy Keegan Connor Tracy has a part in it as well

Unfortunately expect Marain to share that fate with Milah. Just that Marian is there as plot device to advance Regina's story in whatever way.

Sometimes feels like coming into Storybrooke's Little Shop of Horrors when going into this thread. Some spectacular awful story ideas cooked up here at times based on the spoiler we have. LOL In the original stories Sleeping Beauty is cursed by a fairy. In the animated Disney movie it is not stated either way I think, in the recent live-action movie she was a fairy. Some are already speculating, that OUaT Maleficent could be the Dark Fairy which was mentioned several times by now on the show. It was my first thought way back in season 1, when Snow first time talked about dark fairy dust she got. Agree, another witch story could be repetitive, but think Maleficent is no witch on OUaT either.

Great idea for a thread! :-) Right there with you being curious about the parents. Found that a weak spot in the movie, though got they couldn't spend much time with it. It was a bit puzzling, I am still not so sure if the parents were overwhelmed with Elsa's powers and just didn't know better how to handle it, or if Arendelle was a kingdom opposing magic, maybe there had been some very bad experience with magic in the past, so it was not only about protecting from accidental harm, but (as much) out of either shame, that their daughter had such scary magical powers, or to protect her until she would be able to control it enough to be able to hide it, or a mix of both. At some point I had the thought, the parents could have been the Gerda and Kai of the original Snow Queen story, though at least one of them from royal family, and the powers of their firstborn kinda an aftermath of the adventure. Don't know what Frozen fans have discussed in that matter. Aside that I would like to see Pascale Hutton on screen again, a chance to show more of her talent :-)

It's a midseason show. According to Creative BC Filmlist production is scheduled between August 25th 2014 and January 27th 2015 - Once production is scheduled for July 9th 2014 - April 2nd 2015 by the way. For cable shows it's no uncommon to do most of production before it aires.

He was sure no happy camper that Regina had used him, and that he had become the Mirror, but he wanted to be close to her regardless. It was not even Regina who made him the Mirror, but his own wish did that to him: He had one wish left from the three wishes of the Genie, and wished to be with Regina forever. The Genie / Sidney had fallen for Regina when he first met her, and she played him, and he happily let himself be played, he was obsessed with Regina already before he became Sidney, and interestingly so was his cursed self. It could be interesting, if Sidney might now try to betray Regina, attempting to rewrite the book so that her happy ending would be with him.

Has Emma so far ever been really in control of her powers? Would say maybe they are more lucky, that Emma's powers mostly seemed to have been rather limited so far and haven't fully unfold yet. Possible that spending more time in a magical surrounding might make Emma's power become stronger. If Emma and Elsa bond over that, they could learn together, how to control their powers. And maybe it's Elsa, who plays a practical joke on Emma with some ice, it gets out of hand and leads to crashing the bug? Guess not, but one can dream. If they make the Snow Queen have some role in Emma's childhood I might throw a vodka party for days, but not with happy thoughts.

They used Sidney for a reason, think even if Tinkerbelle (Rose McIver) were available they would have used him. It's the angst factor. Sidney is not there as a sounding board for Regina, he is there for being the willing to do everything, lovesick , obsessed nutjob he is, and for being a significant part of Regina's evil past, an appendix of her dark soul.

Wish it would have been Shakespeare, some good Macbeth. I couldn't bring myself to rewatch anything since 2B. I sometimes go into an episode for details, watch a specific scene, but have not one episode seen again all concentrated since the first watch. There are bits and pieces in a number of episodes I liked, but not one episode even remotely as a whole. But that is true as well for 2A, just that I liked the ongoing stories more. Emma and Snow stranded in the Enchanted Forest had potential, I liked actually the dynamic between Aurora and Mulan, and between those two and Emma and Snow, Cora and Hook showing up made some sense and was fun. And guess I am one of the few who liked Child of the Moon, but Red is my fave character besides Emma, and I very much liked the friendship between Snow and Red, so, despite some weaknesses liked the episode. 3A had moments, but Snow and David were like a fifth wheel in Neverland, and when it became obvious, that Pan was Rumple's father I was pretty much done with the show. 3B was, well barely remember there was something. I could have found a sister rivalry and jealousy story even basically interesting, but Zelena just never grabbed me, and it was all so forced. It's funny, never had a problem when Buffy all of a sudden had a sister, sort of, I enjoyed that storyline to some degree, liked the sisterly bonding and the over-the-top hell goddess Glory was fun, but I found little enjoyable about Zelena and why there out of the blue had to be a sister to Regina even a tad crazier than her. Whatever.

In T.R.A.C.K.S. they had still the first version of the night-night guns (with the ounce too much according to Ward, greyish, blue), more or less prototypes made by Fitz himself. Fitz had two of them, left one with unconscious Simmons in the train, while he and Skye went after Quinn. Skye went into the house with the one Fitz still had, and it was taken of her by Quinn. It is mentioned, Quinn's people had already the spec for it (Fitz probably had send them to Headquarter, Hub or so, what a huge hint, that there were connections, a mole!) but sure a working model was interesting for them. Later Ward has one (could be the one left with Simmons), and when they go into the house he pulls a second one. Coulson had only normal gun, and May, I think, had as usual no weapon. So in T.R.A.C.K.S they had 2, maybe 3 prototype night-night guns. Could be they ran out of ammunition, given the pressure might not have been time to make any new. In "Yes Men", the episode after T.A.H.I.T.I., Fitz shows May and Ward the new guns and rifles he now had for them, and tells them they are now called ICERs. They look closer to normal guns, are black, and as Ward gladly noticed, they lost the ounce. Yes, they could have dropped a word about it, like no ammunition left, but an explanation is possible, why they had only lethal weapons going into the bunker.

Art is controlled by money in our world. TV is first and foremost business. If it as well could be called art is something that some dispute even. Those doing the work, do the creative input and process, writers, cast and crew are not the ones owning the product, or not often, and not even the producers are necessarily owning their product, work, but a production company and or broadcast/cable network. Fans are indeed not in control, they are interesting mostly as numbers, as big mass consuming the product, the bigger the better. A few single fan voices in forums or on social media don't matter, they are just some background noise, annoying and distracting but insignificant as long as the bigger number f viewers doesn't care. So, ignore those few nasty voices, they are insignificant. Block them, done with it. On another note and out of curiousity. I read an interesting though about fandom: from: A word about fandom What do you think about that?

I disagree. Changing the show, the writing is one thing. It is as much and maybe more about how people react to what is shown on screen, perception and awareness. There is no chain of command for things that are wrong in our society, we all shape society, and sometimes we have to take things piece by piece, person by person. AS I see it time and place is everywhere because society is everywhere. I am not sure if it is just a few or some, it varies between character and between actors. If it comes to Henry for example I have the same impression as Amerilla. But it might be more appropriate to describe it as a remarkable correlation, that a character is disliked by a number of people, and that the skills of the actor playing the character are questioned by a number of people. Might not always be the same people, but I see often a correlation. The more a character is disliked the more likely it is often that people say the actor is not that good (outside of OUaT Skye, played by Chloe Bennet comes to my mind as an example, while everybody seems to love Simmons and as much Elizabeth Henstridge), especially if the actor is younger or not much known so far. If an actor is liked it is likely that people like whatever character they are playing or at least find the character interesting, it is more likely then that the writing is seen as bad. That doesn't say that if someone dislikes or likes a character, the writing or portrayal of it, that they automatically dislike or like the actor, but it does happen. And more often maybe than we care to admit.

I have a different view on things. Didn't see people tweeting in great number about rape culture to Brown, I saw and see a handful of people getting into a convo with Brown and among each other about Brown not questioning what the show might tell as story in the case of CaptainSwan (that his her prerogative not to do so), and about Brown's reaction to that one particular tweet, questioning if the kiss was hot or something different. Was the questioning tweet appropriate? Wouldn't say so, but the response by Brown was not great and to cheer about either. And some of Brown's following tweets were quite unnecessary IMO. But so were tweets of other people in this convo. No, it's not an isolated incident. But neither are experiences with dismissive reactions when questioning shows for lack of diversity and bringing up disputed issues like rape culture. People are attacked, not just for having different opinions but for being different or supporting difference. It has happened in this fandom, it happens all around. Yup, a few might use issues just to bolsters that one ship they're into, and they don't seriously care, but as well there are people who do and happen to like that one ship. Does that a few people might be using it as smoke screen devalue the points and arguments made in general? I don't think not. The problem is from my point of view more, that many have cried rightfully wolf but not many have listened. But is it really better to talk in some forum about it or couldn't it be fairer to directly address it? Is it easier to just overhear someone talking about you critically and maybe even contemptuously than to be directly shouted at? Or is it maybe just convenient to talk critical in a forum, where we think that it is less likely, that the person we're talking about,or whose work we're talking about, might answer us directly? No harm done when they don't read it, is there? I agree some people blur the lines between actor and character in their minds, that can be find in stalker worship as much as in attacking an actor for something the character did or said. But is it so wrong to wonder and ask, what their view is on societal issues compared to what they have to portray on the show, their take on a character and the character's behavior and issue people have with it? I know, they have a job to risk eventually, so they might hold back or prefer to stay diplomatically evasive, but is it so wrong to question? Of course in a decent manner, but what is decent is not always agreed on either. edited for grammar, clearity

I made a suggestion in my first post about it: Different phrasing of her tweet. Some people jumped at her for using the word "crusade". It is possible Brown truly was not the least bit considering, that crusade is by some associated at once with butcherly warfare to conquer a place, region under the smoke screen of religious salvation, and so take it as a derogative statement, possible that she just meant it has being a vigorous, passionate action or movement for a cause, an idea, thinking of it even positive, just not wanting it on her Twitter timeline. There have been a lot of intentional or unintentional misunderstandings in this. I don't think that any side in this wants a dialogue, not some of those criticizing Brown nor Brown herself.

Thanks for agreeing it was not such a good choice of words. Apology accepted on my side. And agree, that Hook as lovesick puppy would be not interesting to watch. But think, though he shows some patience with Emma, he is not the kind of guy to turn into a lovesick puppy. But, okay, never know on this show. Some random stuff rewatching the episode: How many liters of water did they throw at Pascale Hutton, Oliver Rice and the ship crew in the storm scene at the beginning? Couldn't help but wonder, how much people power, time, effort went into just such a scene on the show. Despite all criticism and being rather a grumpy ghost of a fan by now, remember sometimes, how much work goes into what we get to see on screen. What about the message in the bottle? Obviously it didn't get to Elsa and Anna. Where is it? Noticed the crickets chirping in the back in the scene in front of Granny's Diner. Nice sound. Summernight feelings. A thought: Rumple should have made a deal at the grave of his son. Rumple is known to break his promises, but he is quite adamant about sticking to his deals. But then we would have not that much drama. What was Elsa doing all night? Or was it late in the night, when she encountered Grumpy and Sleepy, and it then took her some time to walk into town? It seemed to be early morning, when she arrived, after all main street was conveniently empty. And did she hide then for a while? Or are the Charming Clan people liking to catch the early bird? (Think though the scenes with them strolling were shot closer to midday). And right, when was that photo of Belle and Rumple in the shop taken? The timing on this show sometimes drives me crazy. Speaking of the newspaper. In the newspaper is besides the report about Gold to marry Belle French, an article about "Storybrooke Priory "Laughing" gargoyle has been vandalized", showing a picture of the very gargoyle statue we've seen in the scenes before, and "Volunteers help rebuild Storybrooke Heritage trail". Was looking if the date was visible but no luck with that. Details, details. LOL The gargoyle reminded me not just of Pabbie but after seeing the news paper articles as well thought of the animated TV series Gargoyles, which coincidentally premiered in October 1994, 20 years ago. Yes, it's a Disney show. Marvel at Anna's skill to put on the wedding dress so fast and without help. Okay, guess I just don't have much experience with that, being more of a jeans and sweater person.

One can read that tweet addressed to Yvette Nicole Brown, which started the whole mess, as accusation of being a rape supporter, but that was not what the tweet literally was saying. Maybe it was meant that way, but that is what I mean with assumptions. We don't know how it was actually meant, we assume, and so did Brown. Even if it might have been meant that way, there still might be people reading it much differently, there are people reading it differently. As Yvette Nicole Brown's reaction tweet could and was read in different ways. To some people crusade has a negative connotation, while Brown claimed she has a positive understanding of it. And then add a number of people joining into the convo, all with different reading, understanding, making assumption and implications... Hello Twitter Hell - communication of the unproductive sort. Getting no one anywhere. I am not suggesting to sit back or even turn the other cheek also when being attacked, or tiptoe around things. But let's say, it can help to not open up another spot for attack when hitting back, or you might gain nothing and even lose the fight.

Not expecting celebrities to be "1000 times better". Not defending the person who send this inept tweet, and even less the convo that followed by a few others, just saying that the reaction wasn't great, maybe understandable, but no great communication. Seeing it more as public relation matter, think it could have been handled differently and IMO better. Yvette Nicole Brown pretty much fed the trolls, so to speak. I am not concerned for the critics, fans, or whatever to call them in this case. I am unfortunately not the least bit surprised that things are heating up now. edit: Have been a person of a certain public interest for a while, though on a much smaller level, and learned the hard way, how aware one has to be of what we do and say in public, and that public can be for some people wherever you are, you are never private.

I disagree, because what would be "teaching" about approaching it with less assumptions? There is nothing educative in it, and I don't see an obligation, it is a matter of better communication. When we say fans shouldn't be surprised to get reactions, then the same goes for celebrities as well, and manner is something they should have too. This is not walking along the street or being on a private party, Twitter is a public and interactive medium, where people give statements, information, opinions, and others might react to that. Besides, being a regular user of public transport I can tell: people forget their manners not just on social media.

Agree, there are two people in a relationship (whatever gender), but that says nothing about if it's abusive or not. Defining boundaries can be at any time an issue in a relationship. I don't find Emma and Hook that problematic on their own, and agree the scenes in 4x01 were benign, but wouldn't have called some of it hot either. I do see though the pirate side of Hook and how it came across particular in season 2 as the charming bad guy as problematic, when reflecting on how attraction, romance, sexuality, masculinity and femininity is constructed and seen in society. I don't find all criticism brought up concerning Hook and CaptainSwan completely unfounded. As I think a lot of reactions are not just about what is shown on screen but how it is read by people, and there are different views, different opinions, and sometimes those are controversial. If we like it or not, and many probably would prefer to keep it all just on the fun and it's all just entertainment level, OUaT is not just that. It especially touches questions of relationships, of defining love and of defining good and evil ,some core questions of any time. But we already had this discussion about unintentional impact and reflection on issues we have and discuss in society, so not going to repeat that all now. The tweet Yvette Nicole Brown got was adopting the wrong tone, but her reaction to it, her wording was not great either. Why not say something along, "I see it different, what you bring up is a serious issue though, but here is not the place to discuss it." She had no interest in discussing it, or let her timeline be used for it, okay, her prerogative, but she could have been less dismissive, avoiding assumptions.

In a tweet Pascale Hutton yesterday confirmed she plays Elsa's and Anna's mother, and kinda hinted that there might be more to come.

Adam and Eddy have said it time and again, this show is about hope, so doubt they will do any dystopia on it (they could have before with Pan's attempt on the dark curse). It would be some superficial, exuberant and thus obnoxious version of dystopia if, taken too serious to be campy but too campy to be taken serious. No thanks. Not saying it couldn't be an interesting set up for a show, just that it is not for this show and these writers.

Who says that sword is the choice of weapon in this fight against "brutal warlord" Bo Peep? ;) Maybe we get more a Brave Little Shepard, defeating Bo Peep with wit and bubbly bravery? Robin Weigert in OUaT. Nice treat. And as Bo Peep as a "brutal warlord". The mere thought just made my week.

Couldn't disagree more. Noticed that too, he looked a lot more silver over night, so to speak. There was something off with that. Maybe if Marian would have said, "please help us" (instead of "help me", although that might be a great detail to feed more speculation about Marian being fake), or just something like, "please, do something!" with a lot less weepy voice, and it could have worked better. It didn't fit to the character, it was (once again) all about making Regina look good. Marian's pleading for help and see, Regina changed, she does help, though might have a bit different thoughts and not just to do what's right because it is right to do. Just a little moment but generic for the writing on the show - making people see a Mary Sue (or Jerk Sue) in Regina. Marian is written only to serve Regina's whatever story, there is not a millisecond of thought of how Marian would be as character on her own in this moment. Marian is just a supporting character, so I don't expect them to have a fully fleshed out character chart of her, but still making it work so that a scene fits not just the main characters but although is in character for such minor roles is a piece of the difference between okay writing and great writing. The season opener didn't wow me, but it was entertaining and even occasionally enjoyable. Sven was great, although a few of his moments had the flair of a mechanical puppet. Anna was overly perky, but that was pretty much how she was in the animated movie, just that in animated version, as being more comical anyway (at least Disney is) it doesn't stand out as much as it did now in live action. Add what a different impression Elizabeth Lail gives in interviews, and I join the choir saying some good acting by her. Not to mention the voice, really close. And Elsa was to the point, glad to see that Georgina Haig nailed it - but her costume is another matter (doubt that running around in it all day in hot summer was that much fun) The CGI was okay, although some scenes with the snow monster reminded me in a way of good old stop motion monsters ala 50s Sinbad movies, just with CGI. They used the word MONSTER 14 times (about as often as Regina, 14x, and Marian,13x, were called by name, Elsa was mentioned 12 times; monster was used 6x in connection with Regina, 4x snow monster, 2x Elsa, 1x called Rumple himself a monster, 1x used it Emma in general sense - not kidding, the magic of computer linguistics one can do with subtitles). Just for statistics, if anyone like me had the feeling at the end, that they used that word a lot in this episode. The regular characters. Think most has been already said. Don't care about Regina anymore. Robin has some dark past, what a surprise, but won't change that he is not likeable as Regina's uber cheerleader. Just past week read a great article musing that we're sacrificing happiness on the altar of the religion of true love romance, soul mates and happy endings (it's in German, but let me know if you want a link to it). While reading it of course thought of this show, and this episode underlined it again. So, progress, Regina doesn't want to kill anyone on second or third thought, only force the writer of the storybook of storybooks to change whatever rules she thinks are there preventing her to get her happy ending. Oh well, fantasy. Neverending Story, Inkheart come to my mind at once. Can take that Rumple glorifies his dead son as hero, and makes promises to him, which he likely will break, but I can't stand Rumple and Belle. Watching the ball scene and the set up to it made me feel sick. This is just creepy and not the least bit good true love material IMO. I care about Emma's story but not much about her pirate boyfriend. Aside of the Frozen cast, which I think I will simply enjoy watching act not minding much what story they are going to tell, it's Emma's story that still keeps me watching the show as interesting for the sake of the character and her development, and not just for the show being a pop cultural phenomenon. And did anyone else get a bad vibe from Sidney? Think he had enough, being put back into the mirror might have been the last straw. Or maybe it's wishful thinking. But he was not so eager to do her majesty's biding anymore in the mirror, and there was a sense of possible betrayal on his side. Think Regina better should watch her back.

Dr. Frankenstein / Whale wouldn't have persuaded me so easily that no poison was involved, leading to suddenly feel enlightened, that it must be magic. Had to grin, when Emma shouted arsenic and bleach at Whale. Something like cyanide (apple seeds!) or aconitum (wolf's bane) would have been more likely, though maybe not the stuff a modern person would thing of. But I mostly had the same thoughts about Emma's reaction to what August told her in the woods, not disbelief but denial.