S03.E08: Who Rules the Land of Denial?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Nikki struggles to survive; Emmit gets spooked; and Sy joins Varga for tea.

Promo:

[Macbeth]

"Who rules the Land of Denial?"  Emmit, of course.

[cardigirl]

Oh my!!!!

[chitowngirl]

Great 15 minute opener!

[AimingforYoko]

I still enjoyed the show this season, but it wasn't until the first half-hour of this episode ended (and I started breathing again) that I thought, "There's the Fargo I fell in love with." Just, damn.

[Armchair Critic]

Fargo meets Twin Peaks (?) and I enjoyed it.

[Primetimer]

But are they too late to help her in this world?

View the full article

[Shriekingeel]

The strongest callbacks yet to the Fargo movie with the innocent drivers pursued by the killers and murdered "execution style"  

Interesting thematic echo at the end where the flickering lights in Emmit's house recall the flickering bus lights at the beginning. 

[SeanC]

This episode was my reaction to this season in microcosm, as the first half was maybe the strongest storytelling of the whole season, and then Mary Elizabeth Winstead is offscreen and instead we're back to all these much less compelling characters.

I pretty much mute Varga's monologues at this point. The Stussys are dragged down by proxy, and Ewan just isn't selling me on this character. Gloria is okay, and mercifully free of the awful Police Captain Obstacle this week, but there's little distinct about her.

[Maire]

The one thing I learned from the movie Fargo is NEVER EVER slow down to look at a suspicious accident. Speed up and call the cops from a safe location.

[Armchair Critic]

Who was gaslighting Emmit like that? My first thought was Gloria but it was somebody who would have access to his office and home. What was the paper Gloria signed?

[Mrs Shibbles]

3 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

Who was gaslighting Emmit like that? My first thought was Gloria but it was somebody who would have access to his office and home. What was the paper Gloria signed?

I thought they were divorce papers from her son's father. 

[Maire]

Gloria was signing her divorce papers. It's been 3 months so I think it's the girlfriend and handcuffed partner from season 1 ( I forget his name) who are haunting Emmitt, maybe courtesy of Ray Wise.

My question is what happened to Yuri? The furies of the Cossacks' past victims got him?  If so I approve.

[WaltersHair]

This was some strange ass Fargo/Twin Peaks/The Leftovers mash up.  Show, quit messing with my mind. The only thing it needed was a log lady walking around in the background and someone spouting "Damn fine Whiskey." I get the purgatory is a bowling alley, but WHY? Big Lewbowski wasn't enough?

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

But are they too late to help her in this world?

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How could Nikki, and to a lesser extent Wrench, survive all this punishment? Well, I have a theory, and it's not much of a stretch: they didn't.

View the full article

Aww. Really? Mr. Wrench and Nikki and Yuri are dead? Well, when you put it that way, it makes sense. Anyway, that is a 5-star recap.
Will Gloria find the bodies?

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, Maire said:

Gloria was signing her divorce papers. It's been 3 months so I think it's the girlfriend and handcuffed partner from season 1 ( I forget his name) who are haunting Emmitt, maybe courtesy of Ray Wise.

My question is what happened to Yuri? The furies of the Cossacks' past victims got him?  If so I approve.

I think the axe thrown by Mr. Wrench sliced his ear off. If so, the ear is what was shown on the screen after we saw the axe for the last time.

But I have a question too. There were 3 people who attacked the bus. Yuri, the man who tried to stick Nikki while she was in jail and Meemo. But if it was Meemo, why would he run back to Emmit's home after executing the innocent couple? Why wouldn't he have stayed on scene and tried to help out Yuri?

Is it possible that Meemo was not the third person? If so, who could it have been?

It was a great episode. My only criticism was there was way too much time spent watching Nikki and Mr. Wrench trudging through the forest. I thought they could have advanced the story just as clearly and only spent about 20 percent of the time trudging. Spending ten minutes watching them trudge didn't do anything for the plot.

I read the above article. It was great. Maybe the very best article on Fargo I've ever seen. Don't miss it! When Paul spoke the line, "Ray is the cat", I was reminded of the intro to the Peter and the Wolf segment. I clearly remember that Nikki was the cat. Wasn't she?

Finally, it would have been nice to have seen Yuri get his just deserts after all the harm he had done. I would have liked to have seen how he died (assuming, of course, that he did die).

Edited June 8, 2017 by MissBluxom

[MisterBluxom]

2 hours ago, Maire said:

The one thing I learned from the movie Fargo is NEVER EVER slow down to look at a suspicious accident. Speed up and call the cops from a safe location.

Very true. Also, never get out of your car if someone tries to goad you out after a collision or some kind of road rage. Just stay in your car and call 911.

By the way, when those two innocent passer-bys saw someone was chasing them, why didn't they use their cell phones to give the police the license number or description of the vehicle. Even if they were about to die, they might still get some justice by doing that.

[thuganomics85]

Nikki and Mr. Wrench teaming up to escape and even decapitate DJ Qualls with their chain a great opener.  Really well done and intense and I really was wondering if they were going to able to make it out of there alive or not.

Besides that, the rest of the episode was just kind of weird.  Nikki/Wrench suddenly show up to a Bowling Ally that may or may not be some kind of afterlife, where Ray Wise's character (Death?  I don't know) monologues, but then allows them to leave?  Where Ray has apparently been reincarnated into a cute kitten?  And now Yuri is there too?  (And what this all mean about Wise's scenes with Gloria?)

Meanwhile, Gloria continues to be ignored, Sy gets poisoned, there's a time jump, Varga monologues some more, and then it ends with Emmit apparently getting ready to turn himself in over guilt.

We'll see how these last two episodes play out, but I really haven't been feeling this season like the other two.

[MisterBluxom]

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Nikki and Mr. Wrench teaming up to escape and even decapitate DJ Qualls with their chain a great opener.  Really well done and intense and I really was wondering if they were going to able to make it out of there alive or not.

Besides that, the rest of the episode was just kind of weird.  Nikki/Wrench suddenly show up to a Bowling Ally that may or may not be some kind of afterlife, where Ray Wise's character (Death?  I don't know) monologues, but then allows them to leave?  Where Ray has apparently been reincarnated into a cute kitten?  And now Yuri is there too?  (And what this all mean about Wise's scenes with Gloria?)

Meanwhile, Gloria continues to be ignored, Sy gets poisoned, there's a time jump, Varga monologues some more, and then it ends with Emmit apparently getting ready to turn himself in over guilt.

We'll see how these last two episodes play out, but I really haven't been feeling this season like the other two.

I want to say "Thank You" to ShapeShifter for posting a link to that article that offers an explation of the all night bowling alley. I understand it's just one possible explanation for what is going on. But for some reason, it really just tickles my fancy. I got a real big kick out of that.  Thank you.

I think that if you read the article to which ShapeShifter linked a couple of posts above, you might find some explanations for some of these things.  I'm really not trying to be condescending. Honest. But it explains so much of what you are questioning.

Even if you don't agree with what the author says, I think you will enjoy it very much.  It's terrific!

Edited June 8, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Aww. Really? Mr. Wrench and Nikki and Yuri are dead? Well, when you put it that way, it makes sense. Anyway, that is a 5-star recap.
Will Gloria find the bodies?

Nikki and Wrench might be dead (Wrench, especially....ouch!), but maybe the VW was a ride back to the world. As much as I disliked the homage to season 1 last week, I loved the homage to The Big Lebowski this week.

[KaleyFirefly]

26 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Nikki and Wrench might be dead (Wrench, especially....ouch!), but maybe the VW was a ride back to the world. As much as I disliked the homage to season 1 last week, I loved the homage to The Big Lebowski this week.

It seems they were in Purgatory or limbo or something, and the Devil (or Death) gave them a second chance so that Nikki could deliver her message (did he say who she was supposed to deliver it to?) So I agree that the VW may have been the way back to the land of the living somehow. 

Oh, Sy...you should know better than to drink anything Varga is too eager for you to drink....he probably poisoned that food too.

I wonder if Emmit will confess to murdering his brother, or will he just confess to going along with Varga's many shady schemes? He seems a dead man for sure if he rats out Varga.

Do we know why Varga's men were trying so hard to kill Nikki? I still didn't understand why. Does she know something? She didn't even report them after they beat her.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

…When Paul spoke the line, "Ray is the cat", I was reminded of the intro to the Peter and the Wolf segment. I clearly remember that Nikki was the cat. Wasn't she?…

Yes, Nikki was originally designated as the cat and Ray (I think?) was the duck, destined to live and quack in the belly of the imprisoned Wolf. Perhaps, though, in the Ray Wise, Twin Peaks-ish afterlife, Nikki's Ray is more or less reincarnated as the cat. Assuming that in the land of the living Varga is tormenting Emmit with the pictures of the stamp, Ray is back to haunt Emmit.
But does Varga intend for Emmit to be driven to confess to his part in Ray's murder? Maybe the papers he wanted Emmit to sign would haven given Varga control of the company in the event that Emmit was not available (like in jail for murder or manslaughter), but Emmit didn't sign them, did he?

[Pannekoeker]

3 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

Varga's men were trying so hard to kill Nikki? I still didn't understand why. Does she know something? She didn't even report them after they beat her.

I think its because she was messing with emmit and she may do again, varga doessnt want any distractions for emmit.
And also varga wants to frame Nikki for murdering Ray, when shes dead she can't prove it wassnt her.

[Pannekoeker]

I don't understand why Nikki wouddnt survive, she wassn't hurt that bad. 
An Arrow trough the leg shouldn't kill you that fast should it ?

As for Yuri, he diddnt return to Varga so i assume he's dead, tho maybe he returned to russia or something ?
We still don't know the opening scene of EP1 meaning other than the name Yuri.

[ghoulina]

I thought the opener was great as well. All the shots of the woods were eerie, and beautiful, at the same time. Winstead killed it, and I loved Nikki and Mr. Wrench working together. Those animals masks, when used all together, were super creepy and the entire chase was just really tense and well done. 

I have to agree with those who are over Varga. At first I found him quite menacing because I couldn't figure out just what he was up to. Now I'm super over him for the same reason. Every time he opens his mouth to give some big speech or tell a meaningful story, I just zone out. I'm just not interested any more. I'm here for Nikki, and also the delightful tag team of Gloria and Winnie. 

I don't know who's fucking with Emmit, but my first instinct is Varga. I have no idea why, though. Maybe he wants Emmit to completely lose it, or actually go confess, so he can take over completely? 

[Mrs Shibbles]

Did anyone catch what book Meemo was reading in his bunk?  It looked like a children's storybook.  I wonder if that will tie in to Varga's words to Emmit when he gave him the sleeping pills.  He mentioned something about people viewing the Bible as a children's story.  I missed his exact  lines, because like others, I am starting to tire of Varga.  There have been lots of biblical references in this season, from Jacob/Esau on to this episode.

[luna1122]

This was an AMAZING episode, full of allusions and metaphors and homages, and I loved it so much. I even had Fargo-based dreams last nite.

The purple-neon'd bowling alley way station to heaven or hell, in all its Lebowski glory, was amazing. Ray Wise never does not terrify me; he's clearly an ambassador from a dark beyond, even when he's bearing the most adorable ginger kitten  in the universe. (I was so afraid for that kitten, that she'd meet Llewyn Davis levels of fate)   He's clearly no prosaic Sam Shephard-y Cowboy--he's a minion of evil. or The Devil himself, perhaps.

I don't know what any of it means, but I'm fascinated. DJ Qualls didn't last long, but he finally got a name: Golem. So...an inside joke that he sort of LOOKS like Sméagol, or an outright, literal allusion to him not being human at all?

Yuri's ear brought up Reservoir Dogs and Lebowski and pineapple express and even the TV version of Hannibal, and probably a lot of others.

The bloody battle in the snow was gorgeous and terrible. What would Fargo be without the imagery of red stained snow?

I almost felt sorry for Sy, and for Emmit.

Is there some metaphor for the VW beetle? There are Nazi allusions there somewhere, maybe.

I do hope it's Nikki messing with Emmit from the afterlife, or this life, or wherever she is.

[loki567]

9 hours ago, SeanC said:

This episode was my reaction to this season in microcosm, as the first half was maybe the strongest storytelling of the whole season, and then Mary Elizabeth Winstead is offscreen and instead we're back to all these much less compelling characters.

I pretty much mute Varga's monologues at this point. The Stussys are dragged down by proxy, and Ewan just isn't selling me on this character. Gloria is okay, and mercifully free of the awful Police Captain Obstacle this week, but there's little distinct about her.

Exactly. For awhile I was hopeful it would just be Nikki and Wrench in the woods then it felt like the air deflated out of the episode when the rest of the cast showed up. Carrie C***, Ewan McGregor, and David Thewlis are all fine actors but these characters are really, really boring. This season is barely surviving on the strength of MEW and Michael Stuhlbarg's performances. I hope Sy wakes up before the finale. 

And there's no way that Noah Hawley didn't know exactly what he was doing when he cast Ray Wise for the role, with Twin Peaks back on. And stars align as this is the last week ever we can watch brand new episodes of The Leftovers/Fargo/Twin Peaks all together. 

[PotterOtherP]

Although we heard Deck the Halls as the couple was driving by the prison bus, the subtitles were the lyrics of Holly Jolly Christmas, also heard in the heavily Coen-influenced Bad Santa.

The last thing Ray Wise says to Nikki is "Lech lecha", which is what God says to Abraham in Genesis, meaning "Get going" (to the land I will show you). But this is the form of the Hebrew word that one would use to address a man, not a woman.

[HollyG]

I would add "Reaper" into the Leftovers/Twin Peaks/Fargo mix. In Reaper, Ray Wise played the devil and would turn up at odd moments and have similar conversations with the main character .. (he was making him do his bidding to repay his parents debt). Ray Wise plays all of these characters very well. 

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

I thought the opener was great as well. All the shots of the woods were eerie, and beautiful, at the same time. Winstead killed it, and I loved Nikki and Mr. Wrench working together. Those animals masks, when used all together, were super creepy and the entire chase was just really tense and well done. 

I have to agree with those who are over Varga. At first I found him quite menacing because I couldn't figure out just what he was up to. Now I'm super over him for the same reason. Every time he opens his mouth to give some big speech or tell a meaningful story, I just zone out. I'm just not interested any more. I'm here for Nikki, and also the delightful tag team of Gloria and Winnie. 

I don't know who's fucking with Emmit, but my first instinct is Varga. I have no idea why, though. Maybe he wants Emmit to completely lose it, or actually go confess, so he can take over completely? 

Very interesting. I you believe anything that was said in the great article that ShapeShifter pointed us to, much of what Emmit sees could be just symbolism. The stamps may not really physically exist but may just be part of some dream or something like that. Who is to say?

I get the feeiling that many people in this forum could do without these kinds of dream-like symbollic events.  But, some people here might really enjoy this kind of stuff. So, who is to say what is in bounds and what is out of bounds?  Not me. That's fer sure.

56 minutes ago, PotterOtherP said:

Although we heard Deck the Halls as the couple was driving by the prison bus, the subtitles were the lyrics of Holly Jolly Christmas, also heard in the heavily Coen-influenced Bad Santa.

The last thing Ray Wise says to Nikki is "Lech lecha", which is what God says to Abraham in Genesis, meaning "Get going" (to the land I will show you). But this is the form of the Hebrew word that one would use to address a man, not a woman.

Lecha is prononuced with the "ch" being a gutteral sound closer to "k" then "ch" like in "chicken". But what is the point? If I remember the Hebrew language correctly at all, the word "Lech" is a verb and it means to "to walk" or "to go".  I really don't understand why the writers would keep pounding out these Hebrew words for us. What is the point in leaving their meaning ambiguous? Why not just provide us with "on-screen" to give us the meanings of these subtitles? Why make things difficult for the audience? Do the writers think it's worthwhile or valuable or important for the audience to have the kinds of discussions we are now having where we tell each other the meaning of these Hebrew verbs? It seems so completely unnecessary to me. What the Hell? Why?  Can anyone here make a suggestion as to just what the value of these exercises might be? Frankly, I'm stumped by it all.

Edited June 8, 2017 by MissBluxom

[AzureOwl]

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

The purple-neon'd bowling alley way station to heaven or hell, in all its Lebowski glory, was amazing. Ray Wise never does not terrify me; he's clearly an ambassador from a dark beyond, even when he's bearing the most adorable ginger kitten  in the universe. (I was so afraid for that kitten, that she'd meet Llewyn Davis levels of fate)   He's clearly no prosaic Sam Shephard-y Cowboy--he's a minion of evil. or The Devil himself, perhaps.

I don't believe he is a minion of evil or The Devil himself. His interactions with Gloria run counter to this. He didn't tempt her or lead her astray. If anything, he offered comfort and a helping hand.

It seems to me that he would fit better as an angel, in the Old Testament sense. Those guys were not the fluffy winged guys of pop culture. They were beings of terrible power who were not to be fucked with when carrying out the orders of the Lord. He sent Nikki and Mr. Wrench to punish the wicked and delivered unto Yuri his just deserts. The Hebrew words could play into this. 

Edited June 8, 2017 by AzureOwl

[luna1122]

4 minutes ago, AzureOwl said:

I don't believe he is a minion of evil or The Devil himself. His interactions with Gloria run counter to this. He didn't tempt her or lead her astray. If anything, he offered comfort and a helping hand.

It seems to me that he would fit better as an angel, in the Old Testament sense. Those guys were not the fluffy winged guys of pop culture. They were beings of terrible power who were not to be fucked with when carrying out the orders of the Lord. He sent Nikki and Mr. Wrench to punish the wicked and delivered unto Yuri his just deserts. The Hebrew words could play into this. 

He seemed like an utterly different being with Gloria. Like...an actual person, not a minion or an angel or a seraphim. Maybe he's whoever you deserve? At any rate, it's my absolute, unswerving terror of Ray Wise himself (I'm only barely kidding) that makes me always assume he's THE EVIL.

[AzureOwl]

1 minute ago, luna1122 said:

He seemed like an utterly different being with Gloria. Like...an actual person, not a minion or an angel or a seraphim. Maybe he's whoever you deserve? At any rate, it's my absolute, unswerving terror of Ray Wise himself (I'm only barely kidding) that makes me always assume he's THE EVIL.

That still fits, since the appropriate response when meeting an Old Testament angel should be absolute, unswerving terror. 

[teddysmom]

Quote

The purple-neon'd bowling alley way station to heaven or hell, in all its Lebowski glory, was amazing. Ray Wise never does not terrify me; he's clearly an ambassador from a dark beyond, even when he's bearing the most adorable ginger kitten  in the universe. (I was so afraid for that kitten, that she'd meet Llewyn Davis levels of fate)   He's clearly no prosaic Sam Shephard-y Cowboy--he's a minion of evil. or The Devil himself, perhaps.

Now I'm really glad I haven't watched Llewyn Davis. 

The fact that he said "leave Ray here", made me think that Ray is dead, but Nikki has to leave that behind and move on.  Whether that's to punish the wicked from the afterlife or hear on Earth, I guess we'll find out.

Yuri on the other hand, gets to meet the fate he deserves. 

 

48 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

The stamps may not really physically exist but may just be part of some dream or something like that. Who is to say?

The receptionist saw the stamps. So it leads me to believe it really happened. 

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Do the writers think it's worthwhile or valuable or important for the audience to have the kinds of discussions we are now having where we tell each other the meaning of these Hebrew verbs? It seems so completely unnecessary to me. What the Hell? Why?  Can anyone here make a suggestion as to just what the value of these exercises might be? Frankly, I'm stumped by it all.

Art is in the eye of the beholder, there won't always be an easy answer or solution.  Having to think about it opens your mind to possibilities. 

[Mrs Shibbles]

Speaking of the stamps, this is the first time I noticed that Sisyphus is on the stamp.  

I am going to need a refresher on that mythology, but thanks to Wikipedia this is a start...

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He was punished for his self-aggrandizing craftiness and deceitfulness by being forced to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it come back to hit him, repeating this action for eternity.

[Mrs Shibbles]

Just noticed that Sisyphus has been on Fargo before.   "The Myth of Sisyphus" was the title of Season 2 Episode 3

[Doyounot]

Man i love fargo! Just when you think you know whats happening they go left! That whole chase/hunt was epic! And in the quieter parts nikki playing back the events leading to rays death and what was happening now i thought was great since there is no telling what may have happened if any of it was different (maybe better maybe worse who knows).The bowling alley made me think of the flying saucer from last season! But of course lebowski style.

Im not a big fan of that movie though for some reason ive seen most of it on tv (never straight through/in order like one random commercial break at a time thats probably why)  but i do remember the narrator stuff so i was expecting to see him but we got this guy! So smart bringing him back from the episode i thought wouldnt be brought up again (thought it turned out to be an aside) but they did it well even her signing the divorce papers this episode had me thinking of his speech to her. I also watched reaper so to me he is always a scary motherfucker even when hes being nice (i also worried about ray the cat but i like to think it will be drinking beer watching the game as per nikkis request! That was cute)

Is it just me or like every week they do callbacks now. I swear in the past seasons it wasnt so much (except jeez and u betchas) but i think its awesome! Maybe they just didnt have that much stuff to call back to but now they have 2 seasons and the movie (and other coen bros movies) to utilize. You just knew the couple was doomed driving by and all the blood in the snow!

I was so shocked when the arrow hit yuri! I thought no way they killed him like that (but for fargo i wouldnt put it past them). I also thought the bowling alley would dissappear or something to yuri but nope when he saw it i immediately thought nice "the devil" is gonna give him payback for those souls! And again nope they got to get him themselves! Yuris face was awesome few different emotions all leading to accepting their wrath whatever that may be.

12 minutes ago, Mrs Shibbles said:

Just noticed that Sisyphus has been on Fargo before.   "The Myth of Sisyphus" was the title of Season 2 Episode 3

Correct me if im wrong but didnt peggys guy tell that story (in his own dumb way of course) to the cop?

I think the time jump was great stuff to move it along and to set up the ending! Also i loved the convo with emmit and varga about sy dying (emmit did sy's signiture "what" perfectly and vargas "what" was so evil it made me laugh!). I hope its nikki and wrench fucking with emmit but with fargo who knows it may be ray from beyond ha!

[AzureOwl]

Another angle to consider (that I found out from reading some reviews online about the episode) is that the name Ray Wise's character used to introduce himself to Gloria, Paul Marrane, is apparently one of the many attributed to the Wandering Jew. 

That would explain a lot about his dialogue with Nikki.

[Bannon]

I think an appropriate name for the bowling alley would have been Providence Lanes, because I don't think Ray Wise was playing a demonic figure, but rather was representing The Almighty's direct influence on earth. Providence is a bit different concept in Judaism than Christianity (and different Christian traditions treat the concept differently), so I dont think what they are doing here can be pinned down precisely, but Mr. Wise was definitely throwing off a Old Testament vibe, which doesn't require an appearance by anything Satanic to be terrifying. Providence has a purpose for Nikki and Mr.Wrench  yet, be it in an earthly body or not, but Providence had had it with Yuri, so he's off to an unpleasant (to put it mildly) experience in another, non-earthly, realm. Pretty clearly, Mr. Providence, travelling salesman extraordiaire, has plans yet with Gloria. I do wonder what the Divine's prefernce in sherry is, however. Fino?  Manzanilla? Oloroso?

If we get a bowling alley commentary on Free Will in one of the remaining episodes, this show will definitely be up for an Emmy  for best theological examination!

Edited June 8, 2017 by Bannon
Spelling

[AzureOwl]

10 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Providence has a purpose for Nikki and Mr.Wrench  yet, be it in an earthly body or not, but Providence had had it with Yuri, so he's off to an unpleasant (to put it mildly) experience in another, non-earthly, realm.

I'm betting on an earthly one. No reason to give them a car otherwise. 

Pretty clearly, Mr. Providence, travelling salesman extraodiaire, has plans yet with Gloria. I do wonder what the Divine's prefernce in sherry is, however. Fino?  Manzanilla? Oloroso?

I'm partial to Cream myself.

[iMonrey]

I thought it jumped the shark. The first 15 minutes were brilliant but then it turned into Twin Peaks, and they lost me. I just stopped watching the Twin Peaks relaunch because I'm not interested in nonsensical psycho babble that doesn't make any sense, I didn't want to see this show turned into that too. I don't get how the guy Gloria was talking to would be in the "bowling alley" either - does that mean Gloria is dead too? Is everyone dead? Is this The Sixth Sense? Is Bruce Willis going to show up?

It just feels like nothing can be taken at face value at this point. Are Gloria and Winnie really following Emmit around and pestering him or is he just stuck inside some kind of fever dream? Who was Gloria talking about when she mentioned Sy had been poisoned "Like that Russian Fella?" I don't remember any Russians being poisoned this season. 

And whoever writes this show has some sort of weird toilet obsession. I'm so tired of seeing people vomit, piss or just sitting on the commode. What's up with that?  

Quote

I don't know what any of it means, but I'm fascinated.

See - I get that there's an audience for that. But it feels like a bait and switch from the first seven episodes and it pisses me off because if it had been this enigmatic and other-worldly from the start I wouldn't have bothered. I'm not interested in being taken for a ride.

[cardigirl]

2 hours ago, teddysmom said:

Now I'm really glad I haven't watched Llewyn Davis. 

 

Oh, you really should.  It's a great movie!

[annzeepark914]

The first half was good, especially Nikki and Mr. Wrench escaping from the bus and their adventures in the woods.  I have some questions.  What was hanging from the tree--a mannequin of sorts for target practice for the hunters OR a very weird dead body (of one of the hunters)?  Then, the unfortunate people who slowed down to look at the bus (big mistake as we know from the past!), were chased quite a ways down the road before they were killed.  But, when Gloria arrived at the scene of the killing of that couple, why was it so close to the bus wreck?  She could walk easily from one crime scene on that highway to the other (and we could see the couple's van from the side of the bus).

[WaltersHair]

Regarding Inside Llewyn Davis:

Spoiler

I thought about Llewyn Davis too with respect to the cat, but here's the thing. Llewyn spends most of the movie toting around the wrong cat. He loses the real cat, then thinks he finds it, but when he returns it to the owners it's a cat who's missing his scrotum (owner's cat was intact). The real cat shows up sometime later and his name turns out to be Ulysses. This is far more exposition than I think was intended, but I don't know. After this episode, I think they were throwing ideas at a wall to see what would stick.

And orange cat is also a plot point in The Lady Killers, another Cohen Bros movie.

I didn't like Llewyn much. Not one character is likeable or relatable.

[AuntiePam]

35 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Who was Gloria talking about when she mentioned Sy had been poisoned "Like that Russian Fella?" I don't remember any Russians being poisoned this season. 

I think she was referencing the real world -- the people Putin has poisoned.

[rose711]

  48 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Who was Gloria talking about when she mentioned Sy had been poisoned "Like that Russian Fella?" I don't remember any Russians being poisoned this season. 

I think she was referencing the real world -- the people Putin has poisoned.

No she meant the former Russian spy that was poisoned by radiation in London.

Alexander Litvinenko

[rose711]

The first half was good, especially Nikki and Mr. Wrench escaping from the bus and their adventures in the woods.  I have some questions.  What was hanging from the tree--a mannequin of sorts for target practice for the hunters OR a very weird dead body (of one of the hunters)?  Then, the unfortunate people who slowed down to look at the bus (big mistake as we know from the past!), were chased quite a ways down the road before they were killed.  But, when Gloria arrived at the scene of the killing of that couple, why was it so close to the bus wreck?  She could walk easily from one crime scene on that highway to the other (and we could see the couple's van from the side of the bus).

Body of the person who had been cutting wood with the ax is my best guess.

[Magic]

I did like this episode of "Fargo" enough to keep watching.  But to me the writing seems like the writers are on some type of Improv activity and/or there are more than one writer per episode and one at least is out of sync with the others.  e.g. some parts are good and some are not Fargo-like.   It almost feels like the instructions to the writers are vague and brief like to fit a few Fargo elements in, such as in this episode Nikki and Mr. Wrench being chased in the woods with a few gruesome attacks thrown in, or killing the innocent bystanders who drove by the convict bus "accident".  After they decide which prior Fargo elements to include, then they have to come up with parts of the story, which often seems like it is on the fly to me, to try to tie all of the elements together.

But they are losing some Fargo absolutes.  For instance, Lester and Peggy would NEVER turn themselves in.  They NEVER accepted any wrongdoing.  So Emmitt turning himself in, is wrong.

And, as many posters have already mentioned, we already have had to suspend belief MANY times just to accept the plot to-date which is Fargo like.  But with the "bowling alley" (paraphrasing "so that's what it seems like to you"), Paul Marrane's speeches, and the end of Yuri etc., come on.  Unreality is more or less nodded to in Fargo, e.g. the spaceship(s) never land - and we don't deal with who is inside of them. Here we have an entire ethereal section in the bowling alley we have to actually accept and deal with, including the green VW bug get away.  This, in combination with the Improv feeling of the writing episode by episode, makes me continue to feel this is a shell of what it has been in the past.  The fact that there is nothing better on tv is a slight consolation but there is a fair amount of disappointment too.

Interesting that Gloria also met Paul Marrane on her trip to California.  But still this time, Paul seemed too all knowing and almost implied that Nikki and Mr. Wrench were going to be dead soon, at least, that is how it seemed to me.  And it would occur in some showdown with the evil ones where Nikki needs to convey the message Paul gave her.  But no wonder he had kind of a weird vibe in California too.

By this point I don't care if Varga et al. is with a Russian mob, I don't care about the Russians at all.  I don't care about the Cossacks, either and Yuri and his relationship to the mob of (un)dead who were waiting to talk to him is just too far from the main theme and too sparsely set up for me to give a damn about that either.

And I got lost in time with Sy.  Suddenly he has a beard in the hospital and the date is shown as 2011, but then in a few scenes Gloria is still "chief" although that is going to end in a few hours so it is only December 2010??? 

Good for Gloria in moving on and signing her divorce papers.  And her reward is that Emmitt happens to come in while she is still "chief" to give himself up.

I wish I could like this season more than I do.

[luna1122]

5 minutes ago, Magic said:

 

Interesting that Gloria also met Paul Marrane on her trip to California.  But still this time, Paul seemed too all knowing and almost implied that Nikki and Mr. Wrench were going to be dead soon, at least, that is how it seemed to me.  And it would occur in some showdown with the evil ones where Nikki needs to convey the message Paul gave her.  But no wonder he had kind of a weird vibe in California too.

 I do think we're supposed to surmise that Nikki and Mr. Wrench are already dead.

5 minutes ago, Magic said:

 

And I got lost in time with Sy.  Suddenly he has a beard in the hospital and the date is shown as 2011, but then in a few scenes Gloria is still "chief" although that is going to end in a few hours so it is only December 2010??? 

.

Once the calendar read 2011, Gloria was not shown as chief any longer.