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S01.E06: Burning Love


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30 minutes ago, dhilde85 said:

 

I'm surprised Renata didn't sue the pants off Jane. There has to be more to that whole thing.

What would be the point? Sue Jane for what? Jane doesn't have anything although Renata probably could get her on some sort of assault charge which would most likely end in probation.

  • Love 3
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3 minutes ago, susannot said:

I'm pretty sure it was the same song Papa Was A Rolling Stone.  It's fairly easy to play on guitar and it's Ziggy's new favorite song because it so speaks to him.  Jane finds it heartbreaking.

Makes perfect sense. I'll have to look up the lyrics.

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19 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

I really hope they don't go the 'Bonnie knew' route. When you get down to it, Bonnie was a nice person and parent and step-parent. She was legit.

I don't think they're going anywhere with it-I was just asking a clarifying question because I couldn't tell, and her affect was not particularly shouting that she was surprised or also just finding out. And I don't think that her being less alarmed about it would necessarily make her a bad person. It's just an interesting reaction that may speak to some of Bonnie's character and past that we're not as familiar with.

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1 minute ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

What would be the point? Sue Jane for what? Jane doesn't have anything although Renata probably could get her on some sort of assault charge which would most likely end in probation.

I don't think Renata wants to hurt or sue Jane or send her to jail. I think she wants to help her daughter and stop the assaults and abuse at school. That's it. 

Renata can be awful, but I actually like her a lot. She's incredibly driven and out of touch in some ways, but no one is doing anything about her child being assaulted at school...to the point where Amabella is coming home bruised. I'd have probably called the police by now, and I admire her dedication to her kid. She's not vindictive; she just wants her daughter to be safe.

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The Temptations 1972 release of Papa Was a Rollin' Stone.

 45 years later sounds so fresh and crisp.

 

Bonnie is just the messenger, maybe Abigail wanted her parents to intervene before the auction went online so spilled the beans to Bonnie.

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I love both the kids playing Chloe and Ziggy. They have such a great chemistry on screen. I wonder if the producers basically said "ok, go play and run around" and then just taped them.

Maddie could be pregnant by Ed. Didn't they run off to the laundry room that night Chloe interrupted them in the kitchen?

13 hours ago, susannot said:

That's the year I was born, so no, not old at all. :D

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10 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Lol. That song was before my time but I recognized it.

I find this 1st grade love of oldies unrealistic.

Not me, not with Ziggy and Chloe, those two are very old souls.  I remember when the teacher introduced that little stuff animal and was all like isn't it awesome how you'll all get a chance to take it home? Then the camera panned to Ziggy and Chloe looking at one another, rolling their eyes and shaking their heads at the idea. Chloe's face said it all, she was like a grown woman in that her expression said, is this woman serious? I don't have time to babysit stuff animals. Please, I've got other things on my mind like sharing with my peers exactly where babies come from, LOL. Yeah, she and Ziggy are operating on an entire different plane than their peers.

Edited by Keepitmoving
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I thought Madeline's green vomit was the salad coming back up. Weren't Bonnie and Nathan preparing spices or greens when they were sitting outside? Also Madeline took a tranquilizer and was drinking wine and that's never a good combination.

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13 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Lol. That song was before my time but I recognized it.

I find this 1st grade love of oldies unrealistic.

When my daughter was 9, we went to see Kelly Clarkson in concert, and then a few months later, Joe Bonamassa. She listened to both genres of music at that age and Joe Bonamassa couldn't be further from Kelly Clarkson pop music.

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Just now, lmsweb said:

When my daughter was 9, we went to see Kelly Clarkson in concert, and then a few months later, Joe Bonamassa. She listened to both genres of music at that age and Joe Bonamassa couldn't be further from Kelly Clarkson pop music.

Have no idea who Joe Bonamassa is.

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1 hour ago, susannot said:

Madeline does not answer the question of whether there were other Saxons in her Internet search. 

Why hasn't Jane googled him herself, if she's so curious? She's willing to drive there but she's not willing to google him?

1 hour ago, stagmania said:

I sincerely hope Robin Weigert will be getting an Emmy for this show. Her recitation of Perry's future legal defense was chilling.

She is incredible. It was so powerful and came across as if she had been harmed by an abuser at some point in her own life. Or at least had lost a patient due to abuse. 

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17 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Lol. That song was before my time but I recognized it.

I find this 1st grade love of oldies unrealistic.

A great song is a great song, no matter how old. Or what grade you were in when you heard it.

Just now, lovinbob said:

Why hasn't Jane googled him herself, if she's so curious? She's willing to drive there but she's not willing to google him?

She is incredible. It was so powerful and came across as if she had been harmed by an abuser at some point in her own life. Or at least had lost a patient due to abuse. 

That's also what I thought.

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1 hour ago, FemmyV said:

Shrimp? What could have been that electric green sauce?

Shrimp in green sauce is a thing. I have a great recipe for it, parsley and green onion based.

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1 minute ago, Cardie said:

Shrimp in green sauce is a thing. I have a great recipe for it, parsley and green onion based.

I am allergic to shrimp and that dish would have caused me to barf.

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22 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

What would be the point? Sue Jane for what? Jane doesn't have anything although Renata probably could get her on some sort of assault charge which would most likely end in probation.

The way that they smoothed over everything so quickly seemed suspicious- I was surprised. Maybe not suing her, but taken some sort of action.

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Actually, what if it's Chloe bullying Amabella and Amabella is so the personality of wanting to be friends with the cool girl that she's scared to tell on Chloe? Why would she bully Amabella? Because maybe she really likes Ziggy and saw that Ziggy actually likes Amabella. 

Will we even have an answer to who has been bullying Amabella by the end of the next and last episode? I wonder if they'll extend the episode because I can't see how they are going to wrap this all up in an hour.

Edited by Keepitmoving
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I haven't been loving this show, but I've liked it enough to keep watching. This ep, however, was flat out riveting! I loved just about everything about it.  Now I have to go back to the beginning of this thread to see what everyone has said about it so far.

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5 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Shrimp in green sauce is a thing. I have a great recipe for it, parsley and green onion based.

I am allergic to shrimp and that dish would have caused me to barf.

 

OMG Beth Hart!  She is awesomely fabulous.

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4 minutes ago, dhilde85 said:

The way that they smoothed over everything so quickly seemed suspicious- I was surprised. Maybe not suing her, but taken some sort of action.

Right?! Jane could have been arrested. I thought Renata would at least file a police report. 

I fully expect a 2 hour series finale next week. 

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My DVR says next week's episode is from 9-10.  I don't know how reliable that is, but usually the preview will give a warning if the finale will be a double episode.  I have no idea how they will fit everything in to one hour.

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5 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Actually, what if it's Chloe bullying Amabella and Amabella is so the personality of wanting to be friends with the cool girl that she's scared to telling on Chloe? Why would she bully Amabella? Because maybe she really likes Ziggy and saw that Ziggy actually likes Amabella. 

Will we even have an answer to who has been bullying Amabella by the end of the next and last episode? I wonder if they'll extend the episode because I can't see how they are going to wrap this all up in an hour.

 

7 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Actually, what if it's Chloe bullying Amabella and Amabella is so the personality of wanting to be friends with the cool girl that she's scared to telling on Chloe? Why would she bully Amabella? Because maybe she really likes Ziggy and saw that Ziggy actually likes Amabella. 

Will we even have an answer to who has been bullying Amabella by the end of the next and last episode? I wonder if they'll extend the episode because I can't see how they are going to wrap this all up in an hour.

Everything will probably come out in the wash.

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I'm on re-watch and I really think Maddie is pregnant. They sort of made a big point of panning over the fish and oysters (both of which would be obvious triggers in a pregnant woman).

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Man, I just kept waiting for something to happen this episode.  Abigail's virginity, a broken urethra, and green vomit.  LOL

At least Sade's Cherish the Day and The Temptations' Papa Was a Rolling Stone happened.

The Perry stuff was chilling and brought back a lot of memories of a past relationship where I was young and the guy would rarely see me on my terms but if I wanted to see him I would have to drop everything.

I didn't really love Maddie confessing the affair to Abigail either.  There are other ways to prove a point or parent, I think.  I know things about my parents that I really wish I didn't and I don't really see how it benefits me.  Unload onto a friend - why your offspring.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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5 minutes ago, Cardie said:

That all the women and their husbands would have been at the play with Jane, had Petty not been whacked on his erection, convinces me that Perry is the rapist and had to be kept away from Jane until the finale. The discussion of one of the twins losing a tooth could point to that being a way to identify him as Amabella's biter.

I read an interview with Robin Weigert and she comes from several generations of therapists, so she has people near to hand to model her performance on.
 

You should be a detective !

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1 hour ago, susannot said:

The conversation between Celeste and therapist so perfectly illustrated the honeymoon to psycho period in the chart posted by (I think) CinCincy last week.

That was exactly what I was thinking.  I have to give a shout out to all the people commenting on this site regarding Celeste and Renata.  You all have been spot on.  I laughed for a moment wondering if any of you are writers for the show!  You're not, are you? ;)

Man, Celeste is not allowed to have friends, is she?  

57 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

So now I am having doubts that there will be some great revelation about Abigail and Ed.  Sure, this show could surprise me next week but I didn't get a hint of that this week and I think if the show were trying to hint at something, they would have done so this week. I'm torn about Madeline telling Abigail about the affair.  On one hand, it's a good way to show Abigail that she's human and the advice is from experience.  On the other hand, she hasn't told Ed yet has she?

I appreciate the show telegraphing the vomit because I hate vomit on TV.  But the close ups of the fish and the oysters after that big "secret project" reveal let me know what was going to happen.  As for her being pregnant, I don't think so.  The affair was a year ago, right?  And I didn't think they slept together again recently.

The therapy session was great this week, as usual, although I don't know that a therapist would be that pushy in terms of what Celeste needs to do, especially knowing that danger awaits. But I did like that scene because it went through the uphill battle leaving an abuser, especially one with means, can be.  Walk away easily with custody?  Not bloody likely.

First of all--show, you got me.  I never would have guessed the virginity auction in a million years; so, well done.  I did wonder after that reveal if Ed had worked on Abigail's website--he is a web designer.  It may have been inadvertent, and Abigail may have said she wanted to auction "something" for charity. His reaction wasn't as shocked as I would have expected, certainly not compared to Madeline's vomiting.  Even Nathan yelling "Abigail!!!" off-screen was stronger.  BTW, that yell and going after her computer + his passive aggressive cereal eating were the only times I've liked Nathan all season.   Bonnie's blase attitude might have been more of an attempt to keep Nathan calm than an actual disinterested attitude.  

I loved that Madeline revealed the truth to Abigail and was genuinely sorry for it having happened.  (There was a lot of truth-telling in this episode and it was all good IMO.) I hope Abigail listens and stops the auction.  

I think that Madeline is a little bit of an unreliable narrator when it comes to the affair, so I wouldn't take pregnancy completely off the table.

The therapist was pushy, but she feels that she is literally saving Celeste's life by doing so, and she probably thinks that's an acceptable reason to behave unprofessionally.  My concern is that now Perry is the first one to have a spouse-inflicted injury on the record.  I hope he doesn't try to use it as a way to manipulate Celeste.  BTW, I was hoping that when the psychiatrist told her to tell someone that she was going to open up to Jane.

56 minutes ago, stagmania said:

I got the impression that Ed knows, and would prefer not to hear any details or really confront his knowledge at all, thus him asking Madeline to stop confessing. But you're right that it may still bite her in other ways-Abigail is unpredictable and I don't put it past her to use it against her mom when the opportunity strikes.

I think Ed knows of the affair, but he may not have known until the accident who it was.  

26 minutes ago, susannot said:

I don't at all think Bonnie was OK with it.  I mean,think of the range of adult reactions to the news that your 16 year old daughter is auctioning off her virginity on the Internet.  All of which were shown tonight.  For this particular girl, I would be inclined to believe that it is performance art and a way of getting attention.  I would let it be known that this will never happen, cops will be called, etc. I don't think her mother's projectile vomiting or her father's seizure of her laptop were the right way to handle the situation, although it's hard to walk a mile in their shoes and I  might have done the same thing. However, I had a son, who was never motivated to do extreme things to draw attention to himself. 

I don't think Abigail is trying to draw attention to herself.  I believe her motives are pure, but this is a ridiculous way to get the job done.  She might sell her virginity and get $50k for the cause.  However, convincing her parents to do an annual fundraiser, volunteering while she is in school, and becoming a human rights lawyer are all ways she can make an ongoing impact.

I loved the Jane/Renata confrontation and subsequent detente.  I think it was genuine on both sides.  It was smart of Jane to show empathy for Renata and to share the findings of the therapist.  Renata reminded me of a colleague.  She was very aggressive with me and I was polite with her.  Finally, I had enough and fought back and she then respected me enough to have a normal conversation.  Jane being aggressive right back but following up with compassion might have been the right way to deal with Renata.

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7 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

Does anyone know how long the next ep is?

Right now, the DVR says one hour but there's no description listed for it yet.  If it's longer than an hour, I suspect the time will be added once the description is updated.

That said, most of the episodes have only been about 50 minutes long.

6 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

I'm on re-watch and I really think Maddie is pregnant. They sort of made a big point of panning over the fish and oysters (both of which would be obvious triggers in a pregnant woman).

Maybe.  But she also had just learned her daughter planned on auctioning off her virginity online.  That likely nauseated her and the fish and the oysters just put her over the edge.

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Even though the therapy scenes are super dramatically compelling, they make me furious. It's clear no one on the writing staff has ever actually worked with survivors of domestic violence. A therapist never pushes a client into leaving an abusive relationship. They make safety plans with the client and address any concerns, but it is completely unethical for a therapist to take the tone Celeste's therapist has taken. The most dangerous time for a person in an abusive relationship is when they try to leave. On average, a person in an abusive relationship attempts to leave 8 times before they finally succeed. Risk of homicide goes up massively when trying to leave. The fact that the therapist never actually made a safety plan with Celeste is totally irresponsible. 

I busted out laughing at Abigail's secret project. Of course she's trying to be super provocative, but all she's doing is ensuring someone is going to get arrested for buying an underage girl's virginity. I would bet that Amnesty International would refuse the money if they knew how she got it. 

So in love with the little boy playing Ziggy. He is absolutely precious. 

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10 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

I thought Madeline's green vomit was the salad coming back up. Weren't Bonnie and Nathan preparing spices or greens when they were sitting outside? Also Madeline took a tranquilizer and was drinking wine and that's never a good combination.

Just as a partner I was surprised Ed didn't flinch when Maddie started downing the wine after taking the pill.

I feel pretty proud that I was so shocked that there was no (Richard's?) wife confronting Madeleine scene last episode because this happens on literally every television show and then this episode it DID happen!  This just proves...... that I watch too much television.

9 hours ago, nara said:

Renata reminded me of a colleague.  She was very aggressive with me and I was polite with her.  Finally, I had enough and fought back and she then respected me enough to have a normal conversation. 

Those people are called bullies

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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Is it possible that the "therapy sessions"  (just the ones with Celeste by herself, not the original one with Perry) are Celeste talking to herself and convincing herself to face the truth?  That would explain why the "therapist" is so pushy.

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 The fact that the therapist never actually made a safety plan with Celeste is totally irresponsible. 

Quote

 

Really?  I thought they totally made a safety plan and we saw Celeste implementing it by looking at a fabulous apartment. Whether she will be able to follow through without Perry murdering her is a different question.

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By the way, is Bonnie's daughter Nathan's, biologically? I can't remember if that is his daughter or did he meet her and she already had her daughter. I guess I missed it because we don't see her much and we don't see her interact with him like father to daughter. We also don't see her interact with Abigail like a big sister/little sister.

13 minutes ago, susannot said:

 The fact that the therapist never actually made a safety plan with Celeste is totally irresponsible. 

Really?  I thought they totally made a safety plan and we saw Celeste implementing it by looking at a fabulous apartment. Whether she will be able to follow through without Perry murdering her is a different question.

Yeah you're right, this was the safe plan in this  episode. In last week's episode the therapist said that for their next session they needed to come up with an exit plan for Celeste and that is exactly what they did this week.  She was all kinds of awesome, she told Celeste I'll give you the number to the Better Business Bureau and you can go right ahead and report me, whatever. I'm still doing my job, trying to help you save your life and the lives of your kids, and giving you this exit plan and schooling you on what will happen if you don't take my prescription for your diagnosis.

Edited by Keepitmoving
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19 minutes ago, AmandaPanda said:

So in love with the little boy playing Ziggy. He is absolutely precious. 

He's the cutest! The scene with him and Chloe running around on the beach was so sweet.

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KeepItMoving I'm glad that Celeste went that far.  Her therapist also told her to stock the apartment with food and to provide beds for her little boys.  Somehow I doubt that she will get there.  We'll see.

Edited by susannot
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21 minutes ago, AmandaPanda said:

Even though the therapy scenes are super dramatically compelling, they make me furious. It's clear no one on the writing staff has ever actually worked with survivors of domestic violence. A therapist never pushes a client into leaving an abusive relationship. They make safety plans with the client and address any concerns, but it is completely unethical for a therapist to take the tone Celeste's therapist has taken. The most dangerous time for a person in an abusive relationship is when they try to leave. On average, a person in an abusive relationship attempts to leave 8 times before they finally succeed. Risk of homicide goes up massively when trying to leave. The fact that the therapist never actually made a safety plan with Celeste is totally irresponsible. 

Yeah, you are right about those stats. I mentioned them a few episodes back as well. Many women have to go into hiding or safe houses and have a lot of resources saved up and hidden. The stuff Julia Roberts does in that movie, Sleeping with the Enemy"  (about domestic violence), illustrates the fear and extremes one may need to go through to get out of an abusive relationship. 

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1 hour ago, madam magpie said:

Ah-ha! I don't know the song...

The words were pretty clear, that's why they used the song. I'm not sure why the kid learned a dance for it? 

I hated the whole 16 year old selling herself online. It was stupid and not all that relevant to the show. She might as well have had a project to sell drugs for charity,  both illegal and not gonna happen. I also hated her saying that since she was white and lived in a wealthy suburb that she would get more money.  

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Reference to Sleeping with the Enemy...Darn those diamond rings that don't flush down the toilet.

Maddie not pregnant...or shouldn't be the way she chugalugs wine at every opportunity.

Perry knows something is up...Celeste wouldn't leave him with his broken ween... to have dinner with Jane.

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13 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Yeah you're right, this was the safe plan in this  episode. In last week's episode the therapist said that for their next session they needed to come up with an exit plan for Celeste and that is exactly what they did this week.  She was all kinds of awesome, she told Celeste I'll give you the number to the Better Business Bureau and you can go right ahead and report me, whatever. I'm still doing my job, trying to help you save your life and the lives of your kids, and giving you this exit plan and schooling you on what will happen if you don't take my prescription for your diagnosis.

The BBB has nothing to do with licensing of psychologists. In reality the BBB is a farce. Many companies that have a good rating purchase them (especially if they have had numerous complaints). The appropriate organization to complain to,  would be the State Licensing Board for Psychologists in each individual state (this is where people can actually look up if a doctor or nurse, or psychologist has complaints against them-any licensed person actually). Since the state is responsible for granting a license to practice, THEY hold all the power in respect to ethical issues. Business matters due fall under the purview of ethical issues for psychologists. 

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Ed broke my heart when he talked about his and Maddie's relationship.  Damn.  I think of Adam Scott as Leslie Knope's boyfriend/husband, wearing a Batman costume or playing the Cones of Dunshire.  Then he does this scene and lays waste to that image.  His pain was somehow palpable and so understated. 

You've all covered how wonderful Robin Weigert is as the therapist.  I like her character's no holds barred approach.  She knows Perry is escalating.  How long does Celeste have?      

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I'm also wondering whether Bonnie knew about Abigail's "project". When she took her to PP, I doubt there were no questions asked. She probably asked who the boy was that Abigail was planning to sleep with, and Abigail may or may not have told her about her plans then.

I thought Nathan's reaction was the most natural of all four adults. If it was me, I'd also immediately start screaming at the kid and go for the laptop. I would calm down eventually and try to have a rational conversation, but my first reaction to that kind of thing would be to flip out. I also loved it that when Bonnie criticized Nathan's cereal, his response was to pour more of it into his bowl. Damnit, this episode made me like Nathan.

Perry is getting more and more menacing each episode, but nice work Celeste for hitting his junk with a tennis racquet and taking her therapist's advice about the apartment. I have a really bad feeling about the escape plan though; I think he's going to find out somehow - perhaps from her browsing history - and go nuclear.

Jane still doesn't do anything for me.

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