S01.E05: Golden Era

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Fundraisers are examined as Leah sits down with a former organizer who planned events for the church through the Golden Era production company.

[zxy556575]

It's kind of amazing how many times Leah herself has learned something as she filmed this series. The deceit and falsehoods run deep and are never ending. But honestly? Those special event videos are SO CHEESY!

Even snark-hearted me felt really sad for Claire when she talked about her forced abortion. It was nice to see that she and Marc had established happy lives and a family outside Scientology. So many marriages are fractured, even when both spouses stay.

By the way, what kind of rat-assed organization is it that, within three months of joining, promotes a 15-year old to an executive position? Even if she is an adult in a teen's body, that's nuts.

I liked how Leah is so sincerely delighted about things like a tract house in the Denver suburbs.

Edited December 28, 2016 by lordonia

[mbaywife123]

$cientology: The most expensive, annoying and inaccurate infomercials ever made.

[Galloway Cave]

Isn't it a waste of money to have PIs following people who are filming a show that will air nationally? I mean, DM is going to know exactly who Leah and Mike are talking to and he doesn't have to pay a dime.

Sounds like the Scientology folks and the FLDS breed the same God Squad goons.

I can't believe that attending those special events five times a year, with all the bells and whistles and glittery bullshit, is enough to keep everyone brainwashed.

[Sew Sumi]

That's what the auditing and sec checks are for. 

[bilgistic]

Explain to me what the forced abortions are about. I can understand the church not wanting the immediate problems of increased healthcare (costs) and another mouth to feed (not that they're hurting for money), but wouldn't that additional person, in their minds, eventually be another person in their ranks? I mean, they get them so young anyway, why not literally at birth?

[Quilt Fairy]

I think the CO$ is more about money than minds. They'd rather keep their workers focused on their jobs.

I wish they had gone more into the background of all the bullshit statistics that were put into those videos. How did they come up with stuff like they lowered heroin addiction in Italy by 39% or they raised the grades of Detroit school kids from F to A+ in a few weeks? And how could people sit there and believe shit like that?

[hoosiermommy]

So, I've been trying to put my finger on why this is considered a cult. After all, lots of religions believe things I disagree with or even thing is nuts. I am sure that people think some of the things my religion believes are crazy.  But the whole idea of chasing "escapees" down and dragging them back...that there makes this a cult.

 

Also the "church's" responses to all the people ratting them out for their bad behavior all sounds so juvenile. "Everyone is lying! We are the only ones telling the truth!"  I could believe one or two malcontents, but please...cut your losses and move the heck on Scientology.  This just reflects poorly on you.

[bethster2000]

2 hours ago, lordonia said:

Those special event videos are SO CHEESY!

Yes, they are.  They're downright embarrassing. Kind of like running around in a faux-naval uniform and taking your orders from a diminuative dictator who has a, um, special relationship with Messiah Cruise.

[DrivingSideways]

Dumb questions... is it only Sea Org members who have to escape?  Surely there must be Scientologists that work in offices and live in private homes and can just stop going to "church" at any time with the main risk being hounded by other members. 

[Sylkken]

37 minutes ago, DrivingSideways said:

Dumb questions... is it only Sea Org members who have to escape?  Surely there must be Scientologists that work in offices and live in private homes and can just stop going to "church" at any time with the main risk being hounded by other members. 

Not dumb at all and something I researched myself, so I'm happy to share what I've learned from various sources. 

I understand that there are 3 main groups/levels of Scientologists. 

1. Public Scientologists - people with regular jobs who live in their own homes but go to the church for auditing sessions etc. (as Leah says a minimum of 2 hours per day working on Scientology is required)

2. Staff - People that work either 9-5 or nights and weekends as staff in various (non-Sea Org.) roles, e.g. working for one of the front organizations such as Narcanon or Applied Scholastics and probably some minor administration roles within the church. These members live outside of the church and may also have regular jobs.

3. Sea Org. - Basically, they are like the 'clergy of Scientology' and have signed Billion year contracts to serve the church virtually 24/7 in return for housing (on base), food and very minimal pay. These are the people that are kept under lock and key, phone calls and mail monitored and harassed incessantly upon successfully leaving the church, even more so if they speak out publicly.

The staff and public Scientologists may physically leave but are still subject to disconnection if they have family within the church. I'm sure that if these lesser groups speak out, it is likely they would also be discredited and possibly followed and harassed but these groups don't seem to suffer the level of abuse of the Sea Org. and in some cases, may not even be aware that the abuse happens at all.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Sylkken
To complete an incomplete thought.

[Court]

I wanted to know more about the Headly's so I googled. This is horrific. Even more horrific that the courts said the church could do that. They were 15 when they joined, how could they say they were well informed?

The Church acknowledged that the rules under which the Headleys lived included a ban on having children, censored mail, monitored phone calls, needing permission to have Internet access and being disciplined through manual labor. The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals noted in a ruling given in July 2012 that Marc Headley had been made to clean human excrement by hand from an aeration pond on the compound with no protective equipment, while Claire Headley was banned from the dining hall for up to eight months in 2002. She lost 30 pounds (14 kg) as a result of subsisting on protein bars and water. In addition, she had two abortions to comply with the Sea Org's no-children policy. The Headleys also experienced physical violence from Scientology executives and saw others being treated violently.[4]

The court found that the church enjoyed the protection of the free exercise of religion clause in the First Amendment, and that the "ministerial exemptions" in employment law prevented the government from interfering in the treatment of its ministers. The judge ruled that the First Amendment disallowed the courts from "examining church operations rooted in religious scripture". Bringing the Church to account for how it disciplined its members was "precisely the type of entanglement that the religion clauses prohibit."

[SiobhanJW]

2 hours ago, hoosiermommy said:

Also the "church's" responses to all the people ratting them out for their bad behavior all sounds so juvenile. "Everyone is lying! We are the only ones telling the truth!"  I could believe one or two malcontents, but please...cut your losses and move the heck on Scientology.  This just reflects poorly on you.

I was saying the same thing to my friend earlier at dinner because we ended up on the topic of this show. Every person that speaks out is a "sexual deviant" of some sort. Doesn't it make you look bad when you claim that everyone that leaves your church is a sexual predator or some sort of miscreant? What does that say about your church that you allowed these people to stay for 30 plus years? I think the best response would be something less dramatic and not so insane. But I guess rational thinking is not something they do. 

[Sylkken]

6 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Explain to me what the forced abortions are about. I can understand the church not wanting the immediate problems of increased healthcare (costs) and another mouth to feed (not that they're hurting for money), but wouldn't that additional person, in their minds, eventually be another person in their ranks? I mean, they get them so young anyway, why not literally at birth?

That totally confuses me too so I was trying to find some information on it. I also would think it would be much more beneficial to raise the kids in the Sea Org., basically guaranteeing further adult devotees for the future and they were also providing billions of years worth of free child labor, which should more than earn their keep! I found this page with information from a former member about this policy. It is reported that the person in charge of the majority of the Sea Org. members and children did not recommend this policy but that Miscavige ignored the advice and arbitrarily issued the order. He really didn't offer much of an explanation beyond, something along the lines of, children are distracting and hinder efficiency of the Sea Org. What appears to be a copy of the official order and some further background from the former member can be found at this link.

http://www.scientology-cult.com/arthur-doyle/339-children-the-final-solution.html

I really felt for Claire in the episode tonight as she clearly felt she had no choice but to terminate her pregnancy and it affects her to this day. As I'm typing this, I thinking the only reasoning for this no children/forced abortion policy is that to a sadistic man, this is the ultimate display of control and a way to further dehumanize and break these people of any free will they might have left.

I found Marc's explanation of the inflation of statistics in the propaganda videos very interesting and it sounds as though these two also had a harrowing escape. I am definitely going to add Headley's book to my reading list to hopefully learn more details. I agree that the statistics in the videos they displayed on this episode sounded completely implausible and they're super cheesy in general.

I would like to think if I were shown this information at an event that I would immediately call BS but I feel like I can't say that for sure because I haven't been systematically indoctrinated over time. I could be wrong but I don't think the people at these big events they discussed last night are newbies or people off the street but rather established Scientologists. I would think that if you've put so much time, effort and money into something, you'd really want to believe that it's for the greater good and not just a bunch of lies, so you'd be much more susceptible to buying into the hype. I think the former members on this show come across very intelligently (including Leah), so my conclusion is that you don't have to necessarily be dumb to be a victim of mind control or propaganda, you just need to be under the right (wrong?) set of circumstances.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Sylkken

[spiderpig]

Dear Uncle Sam:

Let me get this straight.

A significant contingent of legislators is trying to revoke Roe V Wade, making it difficult or impossible for women in this country to make informed decisions about their own bodies.  But this freaky cult not only forces women to have abortions for their own demented reasons, but (warning: screaming caps ahead) YOU GIVE THEM TAX EXEMPT STATUS TO DO IT under "religious protection"???

The same goes for what amounts to forced labor.  We have minimum wage laws in the US, don't we?  Oh yeah, except if you're a declared RELIGION.

It's my understanding that battery is a crime.  Except when a m***** warlord or his minions decide to get their jollies by beating people up.  (In the name of RELIGION, of course.)

This cult makes the Spanish Inquisition look like pikers.  Isn't it time for you to do your job?  Or do I have to declare my own religion based on loving truffles and hating carrots so I can quit paying my ****ing TAXES?

Love,

Spiderpig

[savannah1985]

I read Mark Headley's book a while back and just re-read it recently.  It's not very well written but what he writes about is really interesting.  He talks about the events and how last minute everything always was and how they set up the cameras so it always looked like there were a lot of people.  When Miscavige told him a event was going to be at the L.A. Colosseum, he freaked because it was way bigger than where they normally held events and it was going to be tough to fill it up.  Good camera work and paid actors to fill in the crowds helped.

His story about his escape was interesting too.  He managed to get out of Int Base on his motorcycle and was edged off the road as he said in the program tonight, and someone called 911. When the police came they ended up escorting him to Hemet and would not leave him until he was out of town in a U-Haul.  The officers didn't come right out and say why, they just wouldn't leave him until they were sure he was safe.  Being that the only way out of the base is through Hemet, I'm sure the officers were totally aware of attempted escapes.  I've been up there, it really is in the middle of nowhere.

The other thing is the abortions. I remember thinking "Well, just don't get pregnant" when I was first reading about them.  But the thing is, you have pay for birth control yourself and when you get paid as little as they did there's no money for "extras" and nobody's going to let you off base to go to Planned Parenthood.

It's all about control.

Edited December 28, 2016 by savannah1985

[Kareny]

I read Mark Headley's book last month too. The cover art is hokey as hell, but given his background producing hokey promotional materials, I guess it's not a surprise. But I'm glad that he and Claire are getting more of a platform to talk about their escape, which really illustrates how batshit crazy and dangerous the Sea Org can be. Try reading his book and Jenna Miscaviage Hill's back to back, you really get a sense of how insane Sea Org life is.

The "Church" isn't helping itself with the crazy disclaimers, either. Props to A&E for featuring them so prominently on the act breaks. Only someone who's been brainwashed would think that the things they're saying about their former members make them look good. If anything, they're helping Leah's case by demonstrating how crazy and controlling they are. 

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, Kareny said:

The "Church" isn't helping itself with the crazy disclaimers, either. Props to A&E for featuring them so prominently on the act breaks. Only someone who's been brainwashed would think that the things they're saying about their former members make them look good. If anything, they're helping Leah's case by demonstrating how crazy and controlling they are. 

I agree, those disclaimers that A&E keeps showing (probably because they legally have to) just make the "Church" look like it's run by a bunch of crazies. 

 

3 hours ago, spiderpig said:

This cult makes the Spanish Inquisition look like pikers.  Isn't it time for you to do your job?  Or do I have to declare my own religion based on loving truffles and hating carrots so I can quit paying my ****ing TAXES?

Spiderpig, you are correct, the problem is that if the government came down on Scientology, or $cientology, every religion in the US would be up in arms.  Why?  Because they'll say, "how do we know the government won't come after us for whatever reason?"  It's like the argument the NRA has with gun control, they're afraid that any sanctions will only be the beginning.  I think that's why the government won't go after them.  I think the government should because I'm reminded of the Jim Jones and the People's Temple; I mean the US government knew that Jim Jones was getting scores of people to leave the country and live in Guyana (over 900 died in the murder/suicide there) and they might have felt that their hands were tied because it was a religion.

[Primetimer]

And more questions sparked by 'Golden Era'!

View the full article

[greekmom]

My first thought on those cheesy videos is that if they consider non-CO$ as "wogs" why would they be helping them? Wouldn't you think that they would be promoting their own interests first?

I went over to wiki and checked which countries (besides the US) recognize CO$ as an official religion.  Really interesting read on countries such as Israel, Russia, Greece and Italy.

[laurakaye]

1 hour ago, Kareny said:

The "Church" isn't helping itself with the crazy disclaimers, either. Props to A&E for featuring them so prominently on the act breaks. Only someone who's been brainwashed would think that the things they're saying about their former members make them look good. If anything, they're helping Leah's case by demonstrating how crazy and controlling they are. 

Watching Leah read the disclaimers without commentary at the beginning of each episode is powerful and significant.  She lets the words speak for themselves.

I thought Leah was much quieter than usual during last night's episode, as she sat and listened to Marc talk about how those documentaries were made of smoke and mirrors.  I wondered if she was stunned to discover just how duped she actually was.  Perhaps just when she thinks she can't be shocked anymore, she peels another layer of lies from the COS and has to process it.

I loved when she told Rinder that he should move into one of those houses and Rinder's all, "yeah."  The two of them have a great comic bond, even as they discuss all the horrible things about the COS.  They both deserve some levity from time to time to give their minds a rest.

[tabloidlover]

22 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Watching Leah read the disclaimers without commentary at the beginning of each episode is powerful and significant.  She lets the words speak for themselves.

I thought Leah was much quieter than usual during last night's episode, as she sat and listened to Marc talk about how those documentaries were made of smoke and mirrors.  I wondered if she was stunned to discover just how duped she actually was.  Perhaps just when she thinks she can't be shocked anymore, she peels another layer of lies from the COS and has to process it.

I loved when she told Rinder that he should move into one of those houses and Rinder's all, "yeah."  The two of them have a great comic bond, even as they discuss all the horrible things about the COS.  They both deserve some levity from time to time to give their minds a rest.

Bolding mine.  My husband has gotten sucked into this series with me and he made the same comment last night.  

It was nice seeing Leah a bit more quiet during Marc's story.  I do think she was in shock and is still trying to process all of the lies they told her over the years.  She was crying while Marc and Claire talked about their marriage during their time in the cult and after the escape.  How profoundly different Scientology requires marriage to be amongst staff members.  She was still crying when trying to joke about them just getting to know one another after 13 years, you could see the tears and hear it in her voice.  I think it is a huge shock to her as she was allowed to be married and have a child, etc.   Clearly showing her that Scientology has different rules for different levels of members.

[Theredone]

I think what fascinates me about cults is how deeply entrenched the brainwashing becomes so that even once you escape, so many of your actions are still dictated by what's been indoctrinated into you. 

Along those lines, I keep trying to understand why Claire had to escape on her own after Marc got out. What stops him from going to the police and saying, "they're holding my wife against her will, let's go get her"?

I can't imagine being in their position and what types of thoughts you're having. Does anyone know whether Marc addresses in his book why he didn't get the police involved to get Claire out?

[LAFR]

I thought the private investigators in the hotel lobby were actual Scientologists and not just hired out of the phone book. That's why they would 1) have no problem intimidating and 2) be sucky at their jobs. TMZ could sue for slander.

With regards to the forced abortions - I am amazed that the U.S. Congress doesn't go after them for this. There are hearings and reports that raise the issue of forced abortions in China and there are Members of Congress that frequently attack China on this one issue alone. I am amazed they aren't up in arms about ones happening in this country. Limiting access to birth control and then forcing those who get pregnant to have an abortion is disgusting and sick.

[eskimo]

I understand the whole 'free will' concept that the law is trying to protect in regards to how people live their lives.  If you choose to break rocks for pennies a day, be my guest.  If you choose to let others do your thinking for you then that's what you get (aside from minors signing contracts, no matter how ridiculous a billion year contract sounds).  But the very second you want to leave and can't, it becomes something else entirely.  If CO$ posts video surveillance and guards on the grounds and on homes of the prison base to ensure nobody leaves, why can't the government post surveillance just outside the base?  Put cameras on government property trained on the grounds and road just outside the base.  Then there will be video proof of the 'church' following people out and trying to drag them back.  It will either stop CO$ from doing it, or better yet provide cause to raid the damn place and prosecute. 

[Empress1]

10 hours ago, lordonia said:

It's kind of amazing how many times Leah herself has learned something as she filmed this series. The deceit and falsehoods run deep and are never ending. But honestly? Those special event videos are SO CHEESY!

Even snark-hearted me felt really sad for Claire when she talked about her forced abortion. It was nice to see that she and Marc had established happy lives and a family outside Scientology. So many marriages are fractured, even when both spouses stay.

By the way, what kind of rat-assed organization is it that, within three months of joining, promotes a 15-year old to an executive position? Even if she is an adult in a teen's body, that's nuts.

I liked how Leah is so sincerely delighted about things like a tract house in the Denver suburbs.

Those videos are cheesy AF. I was like " ... THIS is what is convincing y'all?" You'd think with all the money the organization has, they could afford some good production values.

A 15-year-old executive sounds crazy. A billion-year contract sounds crazy. This shit is crazy. I found it very powerful when Mark said that he told people who thought they could "save" Scientology, "It's not worth saving. Walk away."

I laughed at Leah's commentary about the neighborhood. "This is what I wanted, to ride my bike and shit." 

Shallow note: Leah's makeup was more natural this episode, and I liked it better. Sometimes she cakes it on (funnily enough, this was a plot on The King of Queens).

[eskimo]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I think the government should because I'm reminded of the Jim Jones and the People's Temple; I mean the US government knew that Jim Jones was getting scores of people to leave the country and live in Guyana (over 900 died in the murder/suicide there) and they might have felt that their hands were tied because it was a religion.

The US government did go there to investigate the claims that people could not leave of their own free will.  Jim Jones put on a show of how great everything was there and that people could leave if they wanted to.  When some people decided to leave with the congressman, gunmen from the People's Temple met them at the airstrip and murdered a bunch of them, including Congressman Ryan.  At the very same time, he was mixing the Kool-aid back at the camp.  Jim Jones knew that when these people got back to the US the truth would get out and he was about to lose control.  So they did investigate, but it was far too late.  CO$ needs to be stopped before it gets to that point.  I could see DM talking many people into 'shedding their earthly bodies' before he loses his power.  He's that crazy and power hungry.   

[jenrising]

Scientology is weird about kids (along with everything else). In Jenna Miscavige Hill's book there's a lot about this. If you believe in their doctrine, children aren't actually new beings so they don't need to be protected or treated differently than adults. So little kids work and they can join the sea org and have any responsibilities an adult can way too early. 

And yeah, the no kids thing is so you won't value anything above the cult and can dedicate every moment of your life to building their collection of empty buildings around the world. 

[eskimo]

6 minutes ago, jenrising said:

And yeah, the no kids thing is so you won't value anything above the cult and can dedicate every moment of your life to building their collection of empty buildings around the world. 

Speaking of their collection of empty buildings around the world... It was very glaring to me that he mentioned that they were building these because they couldn't stock-pile their money, they had to spend it in order to retain their religion status.  So why don't they, ya know, actually help people with at least some of it.  Then they wouldn't have to lie in their stupid videos, and people wouldn't be thinking, 'what is all of this actually for.'  As ridiculous as many of their beliefs sound to me, if they're trying to do good and are doing no harm then I say leave them be.  But they are doing the exact opposite, abusing people, tearing apart families and doing nothing with their hundreds of millions of dollars to contribute to those in need. 

[laurakaye]

Congrats on whoever built Miscavige's podium to make him look like he's about 6' tall instead of 5'1".

[3girlsforus]

5 minutes ago, eskimo said:

Speaking of their collection of empty buildings around the world... It was very glaring to me that he mentioned that they were building these because they couldn't stock-pile their money, they had to spend it in order to retain their religion status.  So why don't they, ya know, actually help people with at least some of it.  Then they wouldn't have to lie in their stupid videos, and people wouldn't be thinking, 'what is all of this actually for.'  As ridiculous as many of their beliefs sound to me, if they're trying to do good and are doing no harm then I say leave them be.  But they are doing the exact opposite, abusing people, tearing apart families and doing nothing with their hundreds of millions of dollars to contribute to those in need. 

Because the real estate still belongs to and is controlled by DM. It's all about control. DM doesn't care about helping people. He's a sadistic narcissist, not a religious leader. 

[spiderpig]

8 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Congrats on whoever built Miscavige's podium to make him look like he's about 6' tall instead of 5'1".

Must be the same crew who built TC's 6" lifts.

[eskimo]

1 minute ago, 3girlsforus said:

Because the real estate still belongs to and is controlled by DM. It's all about control. DM doesn't care about helping people. He's a sadistic narcissist, not a religious leader. 

And what's ironic is that it's this tyranny that is most likely going to cause him to lose it all.  He's gripping it so tightly that he's going to crush it.  With any luck, anyway :)

[Neurochick]

16 minutes ago, eskimo said:

The US government did go there to investigate the claims that people could not leave of their own free will.  Jim Jones put on a show of how great everything was there and that people could leave if they wanted to.  When some people decided to leave with the congressman, gunmen from the People's Temple met them at the airstrip and murdered a bunch of them, including Congressman Ryan.  At the very same time, he was mixing the Kool-aid back at the camp.  Jim Jones knew that when these people got back to the US the truth would get out and he was about to lose control.  So they did investigate, but it was far too late.  CO$ needs to be stopped before it gets to that point.  I could see DM talking many people into 'shedding their earthly bodies' before he loses his power.  He's that crazy and power hungry.   

Yes,  I remember when that happened as I was in college then.  But I wonder if the government investigated Jones before Guyana; like what are you doing taking all these US citizens out of the country like that? 

[eskimo]

6 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Yes,  I remember when that happened as I was in college then.  But I wonder if the government investigated Jones before Guyana; like what are you doing taking all these US citizens out of the country like that? 

Right, they sat on their hands for too long.  I'm curious to see what comes from this documentary, if anything.  How can some of these claims not be investigated, at the very least?  We'll see...

[3girlsforus]

4 minutes ago, eskimo said:

Right, they sat on their hands for too long.  I'm curious to see what comes from this documentary, if anything.  How can some of these claims not be investigated, at the very least?  We'll see...

I agree. I would think the child part at the very least. 15 and 16 year olds can't sign themselves into slavery. I do understand the general problem law enforcement has though. Even if they raided the compound, it's been shown in the past that these people will just say they are there willingly. Just look at Marc. He was escaping and had police right there to help just minutes after being run off the road by the COS goons but still he just said everything was fine. Imagine how hard it would be to get someone to admit what is going on to police during a raid. Just look at FLDS raids. Help right there but these people are not psychologically able to take it. 

[Sew Sumi]

46 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Congrats on whoever built Miscavige's podium to make him look like he's about 6' tall instead of 5'1".

His father gives him 5'4". Tommy is actually noticably taller and he's what, 5'6"? 

[BradandJanet]

Well, if TC has custom-made shoes with lifts, you can bet DM has them too.

Being small and flexible is useful because it helps Davy leap over tables to punch people during meetings. 

[fountain]

Quote

I can't believe that attending those special events five times a year, with all the bells and whistles and glittery bullshit, is enough to keep everyone brainwashed.

IDK, it is that kind of exciting group think that keeps people in things like Mary Kay and I know even in my industry (finance) you can go to events that you leave really feeling a part of something and I am super critical of everything and sometimes they still "get" me on a product or process or a we are the best something.  People can be easily convinced of a lot when others around them are convinced too.  I think COS does a good job of the "belonging" to something stuff and that is what gets people and often keeps them.  But it isn't only them who do it, big corporations do it too.  The problem is that COS is a church and gets to take more legal advantage than corporations as the legal system just doesn't want to touch a church.

This show is doing a great job exposing the truth in an interesting and insightful way.  Leah does a good job actively participating but not trying to make it all about her, it is really refreshing as many celebrity causes are all about themselves.  It seems that Leah really does care about exposing this thing, it all seems very genuine and I respect Leah for that. 

I like that they confront the PIs following them.

Quote

Explain to me what the forced abortions are about. I can understand the church not wanting the immediate problems of increased healthcare (costs) and another mouth to feed (not that they're hurting for money), but wouldn't that additional person, in their minds, eventually be another person in their ranks? I mean, they get them so young anyway, why not literally at birth?

Yeah, it is weird to me too because in things like the FLDS it is birth a zillion kids even if you cannot pay for them.  It seems those born into the COS are more likely to stay then people on the outside with regular jobs and lives. 

Edited December 28, 2016 by fountain

[Neurochick]

5 minutes ago, fountain said:

IDK, it is that kind of exciting group think that keeps people in things like Mary Kay and I know even in my industry (finance) you can go to events that you leave really feeling a part of something and I am super critical of everything and sometimes they still "get" me on a product or process or a we are the best something.  People can be easily convinced of a lot when others around them are convinced too.  I think COS does a good job of the "belonging" to something stuff and that is what gets people and often keeps them.  But it isn't only them who do it, big corporations do it too.  The problem is that COS is a church and gets to take more legal advantage than corporations as the legal system just doesn't want to touch a church.

I agree.  It's all about wanting to be "a part of" something.  Humans are social creatures and I think a lot of humans like the idea not only of community, but being part of something bigger than themselves; it can be the military, a corporation, a gang, a band, a social club or a religion. 

Edited December 28, 2016 by Neurochick

[Wings]

7 hours ago, spiderpig said:

Dear Uncle Sam:

Let me get this straight.

A significant contingent of legislators is trying to revoke Roe V Wade, making it difficult or impossible for women in this country to make informed decisions about their own bodies.  But this freaky cult not only forces women to have abortions for their own demented reasons, but (warning: screaming caps ahead) YOU GIVE THEM TAX EXEMPT STATUS TO DO IT under "religious protection"???

The same goes for what amounts to forced labor.  We have minimum wage laws in the US, don't we?  Oh yeah, except if you're a declared RELIGION.

It's my understanding that battery is a crime.  Except when a m***** warlord or his minions decide to get their jollies by beating people up.  (In the name of RELIGION, of course.)

This cult makes the Spanish Inquisition look like pikers.  Isn't it time for you to do your job?  Or do I have to declare my own religion based on loving truffles and hating carrots so I can quit paying my ****ing TAXES?

Love,

Spiderpig

Brilliant.  Thundering applause!  

 

 

I love truffles, where do I buy your book?

Edited December 28, 2016 by wings707

[howiveaddict]

I bet Leah is horrified to realize that if she hadn't been a star, she would have ended up stuck in the Sea Org like these other people.  

[rhys]

I wish Marc had gone into more details about his job. I was hoping to hear something like: "70% of those audience members were paid actors." I dunno--I wanted more. Plus wouldn't an IUD or some other contraceptive be cheaper than paying for abortions?

[Wings]

1 hour ago, BradandJanet said:

Well, if TC has custom-made shoes with lifts, you can bet DM has them too.

Being small and flexible is useful because it helps Davy leap over tables to punch people during meetings. 

Ha!  Finally they built a podium David's size.  I have never liked Cruise and have never seen one of his movies.  Nothing to do with COS though I have know that for decades.  I have always found him off putting.  

[Cherry Cola]

10 minutes ago, rhys said:

I wish Marc had gone into more details about his job. I was hoping to hear something like: "70% of those audience members were paid actors." I dunno--I wanted more. Plus wouldn't an IUD or some other contraceptive be cheaper than paying for abortions?

Me too. I thought we were going to see how the videos were manipulated, Photoshopped pics etc.  

I felt so sad for Claire. She is still heartbroken.  The sea org is so cruel. 

[Wings]

I hope Leah covers the hauling in of people to fill the auditoriums, too.  I know they do, I have read that, I want more details. 

[BradandJanet]

7 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Ha!  Finally they built a podium David's size.  I have never liked Cruise and have never seen one of his movies.  Nothing to do with COS though I have know that for decades.  I have always found him off putting.  

I never thought much about Cruise until his attack on Brooke Shields and the Oprah couch-jumping event. He got too strange and bratty for me to spend money to see him in a movie. 

[fountain]

Quote

I bet Leah is horrified to realize that if she hadn't been a star, she would have ended up stuck in the Sea Org like these other people.  

I had thought Leah's sister and possibly her mother were high up in the Sea Org?  Maybe because they had a celebrity relative they weren't as abused?

I will say that this cult must teach some skills because everyone who has left is appearing pretty financially secure.  Which seems amazing to me considering they left with the clothes on their back, no savings and no educations.  I expect there are some that haven't faired so well, some that didn't have family they could call up when they ran and didn't have stories that could fill a book.

[Neurochick]

5 minutes ago, fountain said:

I will say that this cult must teach some skills because everyone who has left is appearing pretty financially secure.  Which seems amazing to me considering they left with the clothes on their back, no savings and no educations.  I expect there are some that haven't faired so well, some that didn't have family they could call up when they ran and didn't have stories that could fill a book.

Maybe we're seeing the "lucky" ones.  The ones who are financially secure now.  I wonder about some of the ones who might have left with nothing and aren't doing so well now.

[Diane Mars]

2 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Maybe we're seeing the "lucky" ones.  The ones who are financially secure now.  I wonder about some of the ones who might have left with nothing and aren't doing so well now.

My ex-boss and his wife (I explain some bits of "my story" mostly here : http://forums.previously.tv/topic/51718-bonus-episode-ask-me-anything/?do=findComment&comment=2858054) were quite wealthy people, owned an amazing property before entering CO$...  At the end, after WISE harrassment, disconnection, etc., he went to live for quite 2 years in a garage which was customised as a place to live.

They lost, according to what I know and what he told me, more than four millions due to this effing cult !