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S12.E22: Mama Tried


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(edited)

ElectricBoogaloo, I was so worried after sitting though the BS Nashville trial last night that I would be setting myself up for this BS trial too. I really thought the show was going to let Callie leave with Sophia. There's a part of me that thinks SR might be leaving-her  tweet last week about finishing Grey's this season and I thought maybe the TPTB of this should would think letting go of a child actor wouldn't be such a problem and just do that. 

I don't think Callie considered that she would lose at all, also. I think she assumed she would win. The fact that after the lawyer berated Richard on the stand with the trivia nights out and the text messages about the schedule, Callie didn't even blink an eye or have any emotion and when she was talking to Arizona before the verdict, she wasn't even remorseful of anything she let happen. She allowed her lawyer to lowball and just..didn't care. You can't unring that bell. This whole time, Callie did think things would just go her way. When she brought it up to Arizona, she just thought Arizona would be like, "okay, cool, yeah, I'll fly out on weekends".

My main issue with Callie doing all this for Penny is that she's doing it for a person she has only dated for months at this point. This isn't like a marriage, she and Penny aren't married or engaged. She was planning to take Sophia away from the only place she has ever known for a person she doesn't even really know. Also, Penny and Callie plus Sophia on Callie days/nights don't all live together yet in Seattle, right? I assume Penny has her own place.  This would have been a huge adjustment for everyone.  Callie's plan really didn't make sense.  

Edited by WhosThatGirl
I misspelled ElectricBoogaloos username and needed to fix it.
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3 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Probably the most irritating thing was they actually expected us to believe that this was something a judge would grant sole custody on.  Sole custody is increasingly rare, and involves abuse, neglect, etc.  IRL, there would have probably been a hearing where the judge reviews the divorce/custody agreement, points out to Callie that the agreement requires AZ to agree to Sofia moving out of state, and since AZ doesn't agree, the move won't happen.  A lot less dramatic of course.  And I was really taken out of the moment of Callie's dramatic wailing by how much she dwarfed little Meredith.  She looked like a giant. 

 

Ditto. I couldn't take this episode seriously at all. I work as a Family Law Paralegal and I was rolling my eyes through this whole episode. I was so annoyed at the misrepresentation of what actually happens.  

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(edited)

Did we know until late in the episode that Arizona HAD legally adopted Sofia? (I know that she and Callie talked about Arizona's rights to her at some point, but I think Mark was still alive at the time, so she couldn't have adopted her until after he died. (As I don't see him having given up his rights to Sofia.) I am glad they took care of that, I just didn't know it had been formalized.) I'd been assuming that Arizona *hadn't* adopted her, since...that should have made this whole thing a moot point. One legal parent can't just move a minor child out of the state without the other legal parent's ok. That Callie just assumed she could do whatever she wanted with Sofia from the get-go had me sure that Arizona *wasn't* a legal parent. Stupid.

And as both had equal legal rights to Sofia, wasn't it always going to be the parent not moving for only a year? (Which means that I agree that Callie the character would be horrible to still leave her young child just to be with a new girlfriend, but can't hold it against her because it would be a fake character flaw created to compensate for a contract situation. As opposed to Callie's actual, organic character flaws.)

And not at all on Penny. Callie told Penny to ask her to join her in NY. Etc. All I think she gets to be upset with Penny over is not being sure of what grade she's in. (But as they'd noted she was six, second grade was a particularly stupid guess. But I just had to confirm with my older niece what grade my younger niece is in, and I'm at every one of their school concerts. There are just so *many* grades in elementary school...)

Love how April and Jackson have gotten their acts together. (Which they may have done earlier without his mother.) Easter is fine so long as there's an Easter egg hunt. Easter is compensated for with the Super Bowl and Halloween. I did think (in the moment, before seeing the outcome for the patient) that it was really shitty of April to 911 Arizona (when it isn't like there wasn't an OB there at all), given where she was.

Loved Bailey's neutrality on the stand and going with her true reactions - I do think a surgeon father's work schedule would come up in a custody hearing, and has relevance, but it doesn't mean her offense at the tone was completely misplaced, and it was in-character. Also laughed at her own objection - after a few decades of procedural dramas, only the stage fright on the stand would stifle me. :-P

Edited by WalrusGirl
ETA thoughts re Bailey
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I loved how Arizona did a personality change when she walked into the surgery,  you could actually see it shift from pissed off about the case and the OB, to take charge,  "I can fix this" Arizona.  The woman can compartmentalize.  

Also,  I guess now that DeLuca isn't banging Maggie, that he and Richard can be friends. 

I thought Owen's testimony was a waste of time.  But when they switched to AZ's lawyer questioning DeLuca,  (asking him if he lived with AZ) I was momentarily thrown.  I know they were going to only call each witness once,  but there should have been some logical order,  like all Callie's, then all AZ's.

Still don't care about Kyle and Stephanie. 

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When Jackson and April brought up Christmas, I don't know why it was even a question about taking turns. Even people who aren't religious celebrate Christmas because it's an annual family gathering. I would have been so mad if April tried to claim every Christmas in perpetuity just because of the original religious meaning. Taking turns for Christmas is the only fair solution. What some divorced parents do is trade back and forth between Thanksgiving and Christmas (so this year, Thanksgiving is with mom and Christmas is with dad, then next year Thanksgiving is with dad and Christmas is with mom).

I also know some people who do multiple Christmas gatherings but it is SO stressful, especially when the kids are younger. One of my friends has divorced parents who both remarried and her husband also has divorced parents who are both remarried. All four sets of parents live in the same city. In the past, my friend and her husband have spent Christmas day driving around to four different Christmas celebrations. It was a lot harder when her kids were very young. When her husband got a job out of state, they were initially sad that they couldn't come home for Christmas but it ended up being a relief because they got to relax and just stay home with their kids all day.

I'm really glad that Jackson and April are being so civil and mature about this, but I feel like it's a lot easier to do that now when they're talking about hypotheticals. I hope they can keep it up when it's a reality and that they don't give in to their own parents asking, "Why don't I get to see my grandbaby on Christmas?"

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I was glad Ben had some comment on the custody situation since I'm sure he feels that he is a father to Bailey's son. I was surprised Bailey wen agreed to be a witness for Callie since she is friends with both of them. In some instances I always thought she was closer to Arizona. So I was glad she didn't throw her under the bus. I was surprised Callie didn't tell her lawyer that Arizona didn't want kids to begin with since she was fine with all of the other things her lawyer said.

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9 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

Also, I hate to defend Penny on anything, but my own mother sometimes blanked on what year I was born. I can forgive Penny for knowing innocuous details about Sofia but brain-farting on what grade she was in. :)

Hear that.  Just about killed me to defend Penny but some days I have to go thru the list of names in my head and gleefully yell! out the one of the CW jr. standing in front of me when I come across the right one.

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It was so heartbreaking as Callie cried and Meredith she hugged. But you must accept it so, Arizona has custody now for Sofia. She loves Sofia also. Sofia is also for them one and all.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, choclatechip45 said:

I was glad Ben had some comment on the custody situation since I'm sure he feels that he is a father to Bailey's son. I was surprised Bailey wen agreed to be a witness for Callie since she is friends with both of them. In some instances I always thought she was closer to Arizona. So I was glad she didn't throw her under the bus. I was surprised Callie didn't tell her lawyer that Arizona didn't want kids to begin with since she was fine with all of the other things her lawyer said.

I don't think Bailey was called in as a character witness for Callie. I think she was called in as an expert to provide her expertise as the chief of surgery with whom Arizona and Callie both report to.

My 2 pennies on this episode:

The Good-

  • Calzona's 5 years montaged into 50 seconds during the "previously on greys anatomy"
  • the Title Card with Arizona's and Callie's faces one either side of the title gave it a dramatic movie-feel to it 
  • Webber and Robbins' friendship 
  • Bailey shaking her head at Callie and Callie turning away
  • Arizona's win and despite the win, Arizona not looking happy knowing that Callie would be devastated over the loss
  • Japril being civil and mature 
  • Alex's ample screen time 
  • Mark was mentioned
  • Jessica and Sara's acting

The Bad-

  • I still can't get myself to give a crap about Stephanie's SL
  • Why are non-regular GSM surgeons always shown as incompetent dinosaurs?

The Ugly-

  • Callie's indifference towards Arizona during the trial - I found this way OOC. Callie can be selfish at times but she's not a heartless bitch
  • next week's promo
Edited by searims
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(edited)
2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What some divorced parents do is trade back and forth between Thanksgiving and Christmas (so this year, Thanksgiving is with mom and Christmas is with dad, then next year Thanksgiving is with dad and Christmas is with mom).

I could offer Jackson and April some tips.

My parents were separated and adversarial before I was born (on their second marriage to each other--ai yi yi) but my mother plastered on a smile and spent every single Thanksgiving with an ex-MIL who wasn't crazy about her and my father sucked it up and joined us for every single Christmas.

I didn't appreciate it at the time, because they never loaded me down with suggestions sacrifices were being made on my behalf, about holidays, or anything else.  I'm so grateful for that generosity.

Edited by candall
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So they've just stopped trying to hide JCap's pregnancy, haven't they? That's seems to be the trend these days. Fewer big purses and artfully placed plants and more just ignoring it.

When Callie was crying about, "How did this happen?" I wanted to yell, "This happened for the very reasons Owen mentioned in court. Because you jump in with both feet." Just a little bit of thoughtfulness and a little bit of maturity and actually putting her child's needs first instead of floating on a pink cloud of love for that dishrag Penney and this all could've been avoided. That said, shut your phone off when you're in court. There's nothing noble about walking out on your own life when you're in the middle of something this important.

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Something that I felt really didn't make sense in any shape or form was the other OB doctor. Seriously? What the hell was that about? I get he's older and has had more experience, but Arizona is the professional surgeon with babies and as they had to hammer in the ground, "learned from the best". Yet, he was like: "Well, the baby won't live and I don't know any other 'special' ways, so let's get the kid out." Also, so interesting you can just shove the kid back into the mother so easily with the magic bands. 

  I hated the trial completely, especially for someone from divorce parents who both remarried. At least my parents' lawyers had a sense of intelligence and not like Callie's lawyer who was the TV troupe "shark" who just asked and did things that really had me shaking my head. Arizona's lawyer wasn't much better, while a bit more professional, many times since introducing her, she is just a one-note bitch, who is just determine to win. When she kept hanging up AZ's iPhone. I was like: "ok, you do realize that as a doctor that might be a life or death call." Also, something that Grey's has never done with any person looking outside the doctor window from parents to average joes. Saying how much doctors don't take the time to focus on their marriages and families and they are so engulfed with their jobs. I just want for once for them to turn and say: "I'm sorry, should I just let the person die when I know I can save them? Just so I can worry about the laundry being done?" I was happy when Arizona told everyone in the room, that she was a doctor and something was happened that could cost someone a life even if it meant losing the custody case. 

  However, for Callie, she did this all to herself, but to lose full custody of her only child like that. Man, that was horrible.

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Callie chose to go the dirty and aggressive route and it certainly didn't pay off for her.  Now she's lost custody of her daughter and done irreparable (at least in the real world) damage to her relationship with her daughter's other mother.  

Exactly. This is why it didn’t bother me when Bailey admonished Callie about ‘chasing tail’.  If her other friends had tried to talk her down from the ledge, maybe she’d still have custody of her daughter.  This is why I firmly believe that everyone needs as least one person in their life who’s not afraid to look them in the eye and tell them when they’re being a fool. Everyone needs that from time to time.

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The fellowship is only a year, right? And then Blake has to come back to finish her residency or find a new program God knows where. It just doesn't make sense to traipse her about the country when she can stay where she knows with a whole network of people that care about her. 

The whole time both Meredith and Hunt were testifying, I kept thinking that if they were really Callie’s friends they would have advised her against following Penny and uprooting Sophia.  There’s a fine line sometimes between being a supportive friend and being an enabler.  This time, the line wasn’t even faint.  It was a big, blinking crater.

I like Stephanie, but her romance woes with Kyle make little sense to me.  Like, he was sick when she met him and decided to date him but then decided to break up with him because he was sick?  Is that what happened?  I don’t get it.

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It still doesn't make sense to me that Meredith testified on behalf of Callie.  Not that I expected her to testify for Arizona, but as a parent and as daughter, Meredith has so much more in common with what Sofia and Arizona have been through.  Isn't the entire premise of the show (the CAROUSEL for gods sake the CAROUSEL!!!!), that Meredith struggles against becoming her mother.  Her mother who made Meredith all dark and twisty in part by running off to be with another man and keeping her from her father?   

Also, are they kidding me with the parents never get a day off stuff?  I have one kid, am not a single mother and not a world renown surgeon, and I would kill for even 1/3 of the time off for drinking, casual hookups, trivia nights and midnight home improvements that these people get.  (Well, maybe not the casual hookups.  Maybe:)

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I was sad to see Arizona sitting in the court by herself when they announced who got custody but I totally punched the air when her face was the one revealed at Mere's door.  I'm glad she's standing up for herself, she's right to do so.  Of everything her lawyer did, she never (that we saw) attacked Callie herself--just her decision.  As other posters said, I agree that Arizona's lawyer was more interested in presenting what was best for Sophia, not making a case against Callie.  I honestly wish we had seen more of the courtroom but i'm used to us not getting all sides of things involving Callie and Arizona.  I'd like to have heard some of Arizona's attorney's cross-examinations of the witnesses.  They said at the beginning that each attorney would get to question each witness but we never saw Arizona's lawyer question Callie.  THAT, I would have like to have seen.  I'd imagine Arizona ultimately saving Sophia's life after the birth would have been brought up and the fact that she never left Callie's side post-surgery.  Too bad the forum posters couldn't question her. LOL. I also wish Mere had been present when Arizona said what she did about parents of adopted children. Mere was being a good friend to Callie but damn does she ever have a lot of parallels with Arizona.  Pathetically, I think I actually slept better (I watched the show LATE) knowing Arizona won the case.  

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20 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

(the CAROUSEL for gods sake the CAROUSEL!!!!)

I had just forgotten about it. Thanks for reminding me. :P

It's the first time in ages I've really liked Bailey. She was true to herself. Was Callie really so clueless she thought Bailey would help her case like that? She's the last person on Earth you'd want on her side if you're going to thrash someone for working too much! Jeez. 

That said, questioning someone's working schedule is a legitimate strategy (just don't enlist Bailey to help you with that), character assassination isn't. The slut-shaming of Arizona was awful. It's not like she didn't have any material of her own to go after Callie big time - how about pointing out that Sofia was actually the result of a drunken one-night-stand, how would that sound? But I'm glad she didn't take that route, as it's already been said in this thread, it's the wrong move. If she's, in your view, so unfit as a mother, what does it say about you that you let her take of your child for years?

Meredith saying that parents don't get to have nights off is certainly... some kind of auto-irony on writers' part? Unbelievable.

I was saying I'd like to see more of the other doctors on the show, but then I forgot they'd obviously be portrayed as incompetent hacks. And the girl's injuries definitely looked too severe for a ktichen accident, but whatever.

Stop trying to make Kyle and Stephanie happen. It won't happen.

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(edited)

Honestly, I had a moment when I thought the judge might say, "The two of you combined spend less time with Sofia than I do my goldfish, and she is apparently being raised by the magical hospital daycare when the two of you have your 120+ emergency surgeries and sometimes forget who has your daughter.  I'm forcing you to hire two round the clock nannies since neither of you are capable of parenting with your jobs, nights drinking tequila, trivia nights, and dates.  You two can live where you want and just pop into the nanny's house when your schedules permit you to visit Sofia for a few minutes."

Edited by izabella
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5 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I don't think Callie considered that she would lose at all, also. I think she assumed she would win. The fact that after the lawyer berated Richard on the stand with the trivia nights out and the text messages about the schedule, Callie didn't even blink an eye or have any emotion and when she was talking to Arizona before the verdict, she wasn't even remorseful of anything she let happen. She allowed her lawyer to lowball and just..didn't care. You can't unring that bell. This whole time, Callie did think things would just go her way. When she brought it up to Arizona, she just thought Arizona would be like, "okay, cool, yeah, I'll fly out on weekends".

My main issue with Callie doing all this for Penny is that she's doing it for a person she has only dated for months at this point. This isn't like a marriage, she and Penny aren't married or engaged. She was planning to take Sophia away from the only place she has ever known for a person she doesn't even really know. Also, Penny and Callie plus Sophia on Callie days/nights don't all live together yet in Seattle, right? I assume Penny has her own place.  This would have been a huge adjustment for everyone.  Callie's plan really didn't make sense.  

So many obvious questions were left out of the hearing.  Off the top of my head:

  • Weren't you reluctant until a few months ago to introduce Sofia to Penny?
  • If it's no big deal for your six year old to frequently fly across the country unaccompanied, isn't even less of a big deal for you to fly across the country and visit your new girlfriend?  Which, by the way, is much longer than a six hour trip when you consider transportation to and from the airport, and arriving two hours early.
  • Do you believe that maintaining a new relationship is more important than maintaining Sofia's relationship with her other mother?
  • What are your plans in a year?  What if you can't rehire at Grey-Sloane?  What if Penny gets a job on the moon?  Will you follow Penny wherever she goes?  What if the relationship ends two months after you move to New York?
  • Have you used a therapist to help work through this decision?  How about a neutral third party who acted as Sofia's advocate?
  • Will Penny be providing childcare while you're at work?
  • When exactly did you and Mark make this pact to have a child together?  Before or after you were too drunk to use a condom?
  • Have you considered how uprooting Sofia from the only home, school, and friends she's ever known, could affect her?
  • After Sofia tragically lost her father as a baby, why are you deliberately attempting to separate her from her other parent?
  • Does your mother still ignore Sofia?  Does she still turn her head in disgust and refuse to look at or hold her?
5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

So many of the things that Callie's lawyer brought up were slanted and were no indication of either parent being better or worse. One of the most egregious was comparing how many emergency surgeries they did. An emergency surgery doesn't mean that the surgeon had a day off and was told to drop everything and get to the hospital ASAP, so it's not like each of those surgeries meant that they abandoned Sofia and left her to fend for herself in a Seattle alley at 3am. Emergency surgery just means it wasn't scheduled in advance, and 99% of the time on this show the unscheduled emergency surgery was done by someone who was already at the hospital during their scheduled shift.

I was a recovery nurse for years, and after C-sections and D&C's (which the show often forgets Arizona doesn't do), orthopedic emergencies were the most common.  And part of this foolishness is because the show refuses to acknowledge that sitters and nannies exist.   Surgeons know when they're on call, and they arrange accommodations for childcare.  I worked with a flight for life nurse.  When she was on call during the night, her sitter slept over just in case.  None of this running around panicking about who's going to keep the child alive while they're saving lives.

7 hours ago, PrincessTT said:

Callie's words to Arizona before they went back in for the judgment, and her "how did this happen" at the end show that she never considered the fact that she might lose. For her it was almost a forgone conclusion that she would win and showing up to court was just a formality. 

I'm glad Arizona won, and I hope that this really makes Callie look at herself and her own decision making.

You're right.  And it really bothers me that Callie never once questioned her decision at any point along the way.  Instead of "how did this happen", how about "how did we get here?" when they went to court, or "what am I doing?" when Arizona balked at Sofia moving.  Callie's always been impulsive but this is practically character assassination.  They're painting her as a type of woman I typically despise - the type who's all about their partner being involved 100% with their child, until they're over the relationship.  Then they expect the former partner to step aside while the next partner moves in and becomes the new second parent.  And as has been pointed out multiple times - there's no way Callie would have done this to Mark.  So it seems to be a belief of Callie's that she's more important to Sofia because she's the biological parent.  And for that, she can fuck off.

Just one moment of doubting her decision making would have made all the difference.  She could have been shown doubting what she was doing, and her attorney reassuring her she was in the right.  Or if Callie, at one point during their hearing, had told her attorney - this is crazy, I didn't think through how complicated this would be, and I'm not going to move.  Then the attorney could have told her it's too late now.  Instead, we get a little smirk from Callie when Arizona was being eviscerated.

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In what world would Mark Sloane have been calling Mere for baby advice? At the time of Sofia's birth, had Mere & Derek even adopted Zola yet? I love mentions of the former cast members, but Mark had Julia at the time Sofia was a baby and she helped him out a lot. 

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14 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

I must be turning dyslexic because I keep reading the episode title as "Mama Tired."

I saw it as Mama Tried, but that immediately triggers - "And I turned twenty-one in prison, doing life without parole ......".

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1 hour ago, Deanie87 said:

 

Also, are they kidding me with the parents never get a day off stuff?  I have one kid, am not a single mother and not a world renown surgeon, and I would kill for even 1/3 of the time off for drinking, casual hookups, trivia nights and midnight home improvements that these people get.  (Well, maybe not the casual hookups.  Maybe:)

Yes a thousand times to this!  When you have a young child, your priorities change -  you listen to Disney soundtracks in the car, you miss an entire decade of current adult tv shows and movies,  and time to chill with friends is a rare thing that has to be scheduled and cancelled and re-scheduled. Having kids generally means you don't go to bars, rarely drink, and cherish any free time to SLEEEEEEP.

These women must have the easiest kids on the planet, because we rarely see them actually interacting with their kids.   They sure have more free time than I ever did when my kids were little - and I worked part-time! 

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(edited)

Still reading posts ahead of me, so please forgive if I'm repeating your earlier point. 

I really, really hope this outcome means Sara isn't leaving. Otherwise, a departure still connected to this absurd storyline would make her character completely irredeemable (though, even if she stays, she's pretty much already there for me). I suppose it's better than having your character mowed down by a bus, but still...

That should be so obvious it need not be said, but this is Grey's.

Edited by RealityCowgirl
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(edited)

It struck me this morning just how badly Callie screwed herself with the scorched earth strategy. Not only is it a large part of why she lost the custody battle, but she's made it very hard, if not impossible, for Arizona to give her any kind of equitable division of time should Callie decide now to stay in Seattle to be near her daughter. All Arizona really wanted was for the status quo to continue; she was happy with the co-parenting arrangement she and Callie had prior to this, but now even if Callie stays, Arizona really can't just go back to the status quo.

As the judge noted at the beginning of the trial, things get said that can't be unsaid. It's not about Arizona being petty per se. It's that Callie and Arizona had a flexible, amicable co-parenting scheme that worked well for both of them, and Callie then went to court and twisted it all around. She tried to make it seem as if Arizona came into the parenting plan much later, after Callie and Mark had already been parents for a while - not true, they all learned about the pregnancy within about a day's time and Arizona was involved from that point on. She tried to make it seem as if Arizona wasn't as much of a mother to Sofia as her, when Callie gave her legal parenting rights and always said Arizona was Sofia's mother. She tried to make it seem as if every second Arizona spent away from Sofia, even if it was while Sofia was in school or on Callie's days, was proof that Arizona was an uninvolved, unloving mother whose daughter was at the bottom of her list of priorities. She tried to make it seem as if Arizona was the only one who ever wanted to switch nights - which, please note, doesn't actually mean giving up time with her kid, only switching days. And so on. Arizona now knows that Callie is willing to twist anything and everything and cast her in the worst light possible.

So, let's say Arizona gives Callie three nights a week, or weekends, or whatever. How can she be sure that Callie won't simply keep a tally of every second Arizona gives her with Sofia and then run back to court waving that tally, claiming that it's proof Arizona doesn't care about spending time with her daughter and so Callie should have custody after all? Arizona can't trust Callie not to twist things around. I don't trust her, either. And that's what's so devastating about Callie's scorched earth strategy. Even if Arizona doesn't want to be petty - and I truly don't think she will even though she's rightly angry and hurt, she looked so upset and empty at the end knowing that Callie must be crying inside the house (thus proving her lawyer's words about how even if she won, she would feel like she'd lost something, to be prophetic) - she still has to protect herself. Callie showed what she's capable of in the trial, and a few self-serving "I'm sorry"s and "oops, my bad"s aren't going to erase that. Callie already lost a lot of credibility with Arizona with the way she assumed Arizona would roll over and just let her take Sofia across the country, or comparing Arizona moving around as a kid (which her parents did so the family could all stay together) to Callie taking Sofia across the country. She had demonstrated she didn't really value the co-parenting arrangement she and Arizona had, and then with her approach in trial she threw gasoline on the dumpster fire she'd already started.

Arizona and her lawyer, by contrast, presented a positive argument overall. She built herself up, without tearing Callie down. The only one who came in for any negativity was Penny, and even that wasn't so much an attack on Penny as a person as it was simply making clear that Penny and Arizona are not interchangeable - the hole that would be left in Sofia's life by moving her across the country from Arizona can't just be filled by Penny and voila, problem solved. Even the cross-examination of Meredith was in a way praise of Callie, in that it pointed out what a good support network and nice life overall Callie had built for Sofia in Seattle. Callie could have done similarly: She could have, for instance, just stated that she planned to work only part-time in NYC and would therefore have more time for Sofia, instead of letting her lawyer say crap about Arizona choosing work over her child. That would have been a way of making a positive case for herself without tearing Sofia's other mother down. But Callie chose to twist everything, like she never wanted to swap nights, or went out and had fun, and when she was at work she wasn't choosing work over her kid. That's what disgusted Bailey enough to have her switch over to Arizona's side of the courtroom, a move I loved.

Edited by Black Knight
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When parents share custody, like Callie and Arizona were doing, one cannot take the child out of state to live  without the other parents' permission, and a plan for visitation. 

A friend of mine had to turn down an out of state job because her ex-husband didn't want to change the time allotted in the custody arrangements. (He was a bitter SOB at that point, but came to his senses a couple years later when another opportunity arose.) 

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I didn't like that lawyer who added up the number of emergency surgeries and the number of trivia nights, and said the sum was the number of days AZ neglected her child.   That was a ridiculous leap.

That part had me fuming- they added up her surgeries and the trivia nights, as though every one of those instances was during non-work hours (the surgeries) and all were the nights she was scheduled to have Sophia. I know that Arizona's lawyer didn't have the data handy, but I would have liked to have seen how many messages there were to show how many times Arizona took Sophia on a night when it was Callie's scheduled time, which would offset the total. If Arizona did an emergency surgery during her shift, then went to the bar later that night to do trivia with Richard while Callie was scheduled to have Sophia, that two instances of "neglecting her daughter" that are totally bogus in the span of one day!

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Never once was Callie's judgment or fitness as a parent called into question, even though her choice to rip her daughter out of the joint parenting situation she's had her whole life in order to move cross-country to be with a woman she's been with for less than a year and isn't married or even engaged to - a choice that looks even worse when put it in the perspective of Callie being twice-divorced.

I sort of wanted to see a cross-examination of Owen's "Oh, she's just so passionate and jumps into adventures!" that highlighted the impulsive nature of uprooting a young child and moving her across the country (away from her entire support system) for a year.  In a hearing that is all about the welfare of a child, the idea that it's totally cool to disrupt an elementary-school-aged child's life like that would not fly. (and didn't, I guess, since the judge decided to keep Sophia with the mom who was willing to keep her in her school, and spending time with her friends that she'd had since infancy, and the house she loves...) But I also see that Arizona's lawyer wasn't willing to do character attacks; she only focused on why staying put was good for the child.

I really enjoyed seeing the sensible negotiation of how to split holiday between Jackson and April. 

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44 minutes ago, sarkygal said:

In what world would Mark Sloane have been calling Mere for baby advice? At the time of Sofia's birth, had Mere & Derek even adopted Zola yet? I love mentions of the former cast members, but Mark had Julia at the time Sofia was a baby and she helped him out a lot. 

Mark & Derek used to take the babies to daycare and visit them there together so Zola was there when Sofia was born. I guess we are supposed to believe that Meredith is such a natural mother that she had all the answers that Mark didn't. Funny, from what we saw Mark was far more warm and loving towards the baby than Meredith has ever been shown towards the kids (IMO). Even in this episode she didn't even bother saying hello to little Sofia even knowing what was happening in her world. She is just so cold. 

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These women must have the easiest kids on the planet, because we rarely see them actually interacting with their kids.   They sure have more free time than I ever did when my kids were little - and I worked part-time!

They have more free time than single people who care for a pet.

Edited by windsprints
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You don't win you play dirty. Screw Callie with her smirking and blatant disrespect for her daughter's other mother.

I thought Penny's "These are a few of Sofia's favorite things" came off rehearsed.

Bailey, hah!

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I thought they were going to say the teenage girl was trying to hurt herself.

Me, too. It was, as you said, really bizarre. More to come with that storyline?

Props for honoring Haggard with the episode title. "Nothing Compares 2 U" just made me sad(der).

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45 minutes ago, RealityCowgirl said:

Still reading posts ahead of me, so please forgive if I'm repeating your earlier point. 

I really, really hope this outcome means Sara isn't leaving. Otherwise, a departure still connected to this absurd storyline would make her character completely irredeemable (though, even if she stays, she's pretty much already there for me). I suppose it's better than having your character mowed down by a bus, but still...

That should be so obvious it need not be said, but this is Grey's.

Unfortunately, I kind of reluctantly feel the opposite about this.  We have had an entire season of Penny being perfect and being everywhere, getting screentime, character development and storylines that the majority of the cast didn't get.  We have been subject to her negative chemistry with Callie, and we have been subject to Callie acting like a complete lovestruck teenager first and then a completely oblivious co-parent, and I really hope that there is a reason for it.  Not just a tease that Calzona might get back together, not just as a heavy-handed PSA about custody battles, lawyers or adoptive parents, but because the writers needed to find a way to write Callie out.  Or at the very least, because Sara Ramirez's contract has been down to the wire and they just weren't sure what to do.  Of course, they could have done it 1,000 times better, but that goes for most things these days.  After all of this, if Penny just hightails it NYC, never to be heard from again and Callie and Arizona simply go back to exactly where they were before, only now with distrust and bitter feelings, then I am going to be annoyed.  Not because I want Penny to stay or Callie to leave, but it just seems a pointless storyline, again, when so many other things happened offscreen.

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I also think SR is leaving but man talk about a happy send off. Her character is being trashed and the fans of Callie are starting to dislike her. I wonder if the actors care how the way the character is written prior to departure! Is Shonda that cruel? Such a let down. 

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8 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

Unfortunately, I kind of reluctantly feel the opposite about this.  We have had an entire season of Penny being perfect and being everywhere, getting screentime, character development and storylines that the majority of the cast didn't get.  We have been subject to her negative chemistry with Callie, and we have been subject to Callie acting like a complete lovestruck teenager first and then a completely oblivious co-parent, and I really hope that there is a reason for it.  Not just a tease that Calzona might get back together, not just as a heavy-handed PSA about custody battles, lawyers or adoptive parents, but because the writers needed to find a way to write Callie out.  Or at the very least, because Sara Ramirez's contract has been down to the wire and they just weren't sure what to do.  Of course, they could have done it 1,000 times better, but that goes for most things these days.  After all of this, if Penny just hightails it NYC, never to be heard from again and Callie and Arizona simply go back to exactly where they were before, only now with distrust and bitter feelings, then I am going to be annoyed.  Not because I want Penny to stay or Callie to leave, but it just seems a pointless storyline, again, when so many other things happened offscreen.

Amen to that! That's exactly what I've always argued. If the intended endgame all this time really was "And Penny goes away and we all pretend none of this ever happened", that would surely be the most pointless storyline ever and I can't really believe anyone would come up with that for no reason. 

That said, I'd be equally (if not more) annoyed if this somehow magically ends in Callie and Arizona getting back together. I thought things might be played out differently and that in the middle of the heated courtroom battle those two would realize they care about each other more than they thought they did and it paves the way for their reunion. Sure, it wouldn't be very realistic, but I could see where they're coming from. Now, with things getting as ugly and feelings being hurt this much, they have an awfully long way to go and an awful lot to do and issues to address before they even think about being together again. Barring some huge time jumps again (which is always a possibility on this show, sadly), I can't see it before, say, the end of the next season. And it could have easily been done without introducing Penny's character. 

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When she kept hanging up AZ's iPhone. I was like: "ok, you do realize that as a doctor that might be a life or death call."

I don't know about other jurisdictions, but in the courthouse where I work, NO ONE (other than courtroom personnel) is allowed to answer their cellphone in a courtroom or hearing room.  In fact, while attorneys are permitted to turn their phones on if they need to call their offices to check dates for potential hearings, they and their clients are not allowed to have their phones on, not even on vibrate.  The prominently displayed signs on the courtroom/hearing room doors specifically point this out in no uncertain terms.  Of course, in the real world, a major hospital of Seattle Grace Mercy Death's alleged caliber would have more than one highly qualified neonatal specialist, and the other doctor(s) would be on call for emergencies when Arizona was scheduled off for a court hearing, but we all know Shondaland bears no resemblance to the real world.

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1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

So many obvious questions were left out of the hearing.  Off the top of my head:

  • Weren't you reluctant until a few months ago to introduce Sofia to Penny?
  • If it's no big deal for your six year old to frequently fly across the country unaccompanied, isn't even less of a big deal for you to fly across the country and visit your new girlfriend?  Which, by the way, is much longer than a six hour trip when you consider transportation to and from the airport, and arriving two hours early.
  • Do you believe that maintaining a new relationship is more important than maintaining Sofia's relationship with her other mother?
  • What are your plans in a year?  What if you can't rehire at Grey-Sloane?  What if Penny gets a job on the moon?  Will you follow Penny wherever she goes?  What if the relationship ends two months after you move to New York?
  • Have you used a therapist to help work through this decision?  How about a neutral third party who acted as Sofia's advocate?
  • Will Penny be providing childcare while you're at work?
  • When exactly did you and Mark make this pact to have a child together?  Before or after you were too drunk to use a condom?
  • Have you considered how uprooting Sofia from the only home, school, and friends she's ever known, could affect her?
  • After Sofia tragically lost her father as a baby, why are you deliberately attempting to separate her from her other parent?
  • Does your mother still ignore Sofia?  Does she still turn her head in disgust and refuse to look at or hold her?

The problem is they didn't even show Callie being cross examined, which I think was on purpose as to avoid the obvious questions. Plus I do think the show was trying to make an effort to surprise us with the result, even though next to no one was rooting for Callie to move away with Sofia. Having Callie be cross examined would've hurt her case and character even more, that's how irrational and foolish this entire thing is. 

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I'm sorry, but nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. The fact of the matter is, while Arizona is a parent to Sofia, Callie is the BIOLOGICAL parent, and she is 100% a fit mother. No judge in his or her right mind would separate a child from their biological parent if they are, in fact, a fit parent. I don't care if Arizona comes across as more sympathetic or not, that would just never happen.

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I don't know about other jurisdictions, but in the courthouse where I work, NO ONE (other than courtroom personnel) is allowed to answer their cellphone in a courtroom or hearing room.  In fact, while attorneys are permitted to turn their phones on if they need to call their offices to check dates for potential hearings, they and their clients are not allowed to have their phones on, not even on vibrate.  The prominently displayed signs on the courtroom/hearing room doors specifically point this out in no uncertain terms.  Of course, in the real world, a major hospital of Seattle Grace Mercy Death's alleged caliber would have more than one highly qualified neonatal specialist, and the other doctor(s) would be on call for emergencies when Arizona was scheduled off for a court hearing, but we all know Shondaland bears no resemblance to the real world.

Amen to this!  In the area where I work, you can take a cell phone in, but signs and usually the judge herself/himself announces that all phones must be turned off [or at least on vibrate for heaven's sake]. And the lawyer should've at least flipped it to silent after the first call.  And one my pet peeves for years has been there is only ONE qualified dr for neonatal/cardio/neuro/whatever that has to handle ALL patients/surgeries ALL the time.  

Liked the list of questions someone posted earlier, especially:

 

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What are your plans in a year?  What if you can't rehire at Grey-Sloane?  What if Penny gets a job on the moon?  Will you follow Penny wherever she goes?  What if the relationship ends two months after you move to New York?

 

Would love to have seen Callie's response.  Also,  "How about a neutral third party who acted as Sofia's advocate?" " In my state, if there is any suit over custody, a guardian ad litem is appointed for the child.

Finally, I am glad Arizona got custody, but I really thought Callie was going to make a sacrifice too.  I thought when Arizona made her speech, she was going to tell Callie "You win" and walk out....which she basically did without saying the exact words.  But I thought that would make Callie drop the suit and try to work out something, or decide not to move to NYC, but nope!

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19 minutes ago, Joana said:

Amen to that! That's exactly what I've always argued. If the intended endgame all this time really was "And Penny goes away and we all pretend none of this ever happened", that would surely be the most pointless storyline ever and I can't really believe anyone would come up with that for no reason. 

That said, I'd be equally (if not more) annoyed if this somehow magically ends in Callie and Arizona getting back together. I thought things might be played out differently and that in the middle of the heated courtroom battle those two would realize they care about each other more than they thought they did and it paves the way for their reunion. Sure, it wouldn't be very realistic, but I could see where they're coming from. Now, with things getting as ugly and feelings being hurt this much, they have an awfully long way to go and an awful lot to do and issues to address before they even think about being together again. Barring some huge time jumps again (which is always a possibility on this show, sadly), I can't see it before, say, the end of the next season. And it could have easily been done without introducing Penny's character. 

Based on this, you seem to think Shonda has season 13 already planned with a Calzona reunion.... I don't see it happening. And after reading some of the tweets, GA is about 3 weeks out in preproduction. They don't know where the story lines are going.  I read some where that Shonda presents her thoughts on the SL to the writers and then the writers go out to create the episodes. 

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4 minutes ago, sekay87 said:

I'm sorry, but nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. The fact of the matter is, while Arizona is a parent to Sofia, Callie is the BIOLOGICAL parent, and she is 100% a fit mother. No judge in his or her right mind would separate a child from their biological parent if they are, in fact, a fit parent. I don't care if Arizona comes across as more sympathetic or not, that would just never happen.

Arizona is also 100% fit mother and she is staying where Sofia's "village" is and not running across the country for someone she's been dating for a few months. A judge goes with the outcome that is the least disruptive on the child's life. And NOT moving for a new girlfriend for her temporary job is the least disruptive option.

And the assumption that Callie should just automatically win because of blood is insulting.

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I wasn't surprised that Arizona won custody based on the narrative when the show started. 

The negotiations between Jackson and April were interesting. I'm wondering if April gave him Halloween because she doesn't celebrate it. 

I can't help but wonder if that other doctor would have called the pregnancy unviable so quickly if the mother wasn't a teenager. 

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47 minutes ago, sekay87 said:

I'm sorry, but nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. The fact of the matter is, while Arizona is a parent to Sofia, Callie is the BIOLOGICAL parent, and she is 100% a fit mother. No judge in his or her right mind would separate a child from their biological parent if they are, in fact, a fit parent. I don't care if Arizona comes across as more sympathetic or not, that would just never happen.

I'm sorry but adoptive parents (family) is as much as a family with the same rights as biological ones, and sometimes even more (in case of full adoptions, when the biological parents give up on their kids for any reason). It would be insulting to so many families if Callie had Sophia solemnly for the fact she is her biological mom.

The law worries about the wellfare of those who cannot speak for themselves, and in the eyes of the law, adoptive or biological, it is the same thing. The judge was very correct to not make any difference.Both mothers loved Sofia, it was a question of whom could provide the most stable life for her.

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1 hour ago, jaync said:

I thought Penny's "These are a few of Sofia's favorite things" came off rehearsed.

I know. like. that little pause, and then she basically Favourite-Vomited all of Sofia's go toes. which is why i think it was poignant that she didn't remember the grade. that's something that I don't think you'd stop to recall, where as the basics (colour toy, book, etc) would be. it's something I always like to tease my mom about, like "pft, you know me ma? you don't even know my favourite colour." 

 

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

So many obvious questions were left out of the hearing.  Off the top of my head:

  • Weren't you reluctant until a few months ago to introduce Sofia to Penny?
  • If it's no big deal for your six year old to frequently fly across the country unaccompanied, isn't even less of a big deal for you to fly across the country and visit your new girlfriend?  Which, by the way, is much longer than a six hour trip when you consider transportation to and from the airport, and arriving two hours early.
  • Do you believe that maintaining a new relationship is more important than maintaining Sofia's relationship with her other mother?
  • What are your plans in a year?  What if you can't rehire at Grey-Sloane?  What if Penny gets a job on the moon?  Will you follow Penny wherever she goes?  What if the relationship ends two months after you move to New York?
  • Have you used a therapist to help work through this decision?  How about a neutral third party who acted as Sofia's advocate?
  • Will Penny be providing childcare while you're at work?
  • When exactly did you and Mark make this pact to have a child together?  Before or after you were too drunk to use a condom?
  • Have you considered how uprooting Sofia from the only home, school, and friends she's ever known, could affect her?
  • After Sofia tragically lost her father as a baby, why are you deliberately attempting to separate her from her other parent?
  • Does your mother still ignore Sofia?  Does she still turn her head in disgust and refuse to look at or hold her?

See those are all questions that should have been asked, or at least the a massive one - what happens after a year? i know people are always like "i can't believe this is for PENNY. but I mean scratch out Penny for Erica Hahn. or for George. or for Arizona. (ie: people we liked and we were actually rooting for the relationship). I honestly don't know why Callie couldn't have Sofia live in Seattle, figure out the "year" and then make her plans. 

(though to be fair, I wasn't "against" Sofia moving to New York either. i figure people move all the time. it would be a great experience even if it sucks when you are sick. it was the situation and the fact that "after the year" was never really explained by ANYONE in the show). 

2 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

Callie did make one strong point, though. Mark would hate this. And I think he would be on Arizona's side.

100 percent absolutely. Mark would have shut this crap down. (and I do think he would have been on team Arizona). Mark was one of those people who called anyone and everyone (including himself) on their crap. 

 

59 minutes ago, sekay87 said:

I'm sorry, but nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. The fact of the matter is, while Arizona is a parent to Sofia, Callie is the BIOLOGICAL parent, and she is 100% a fit mother. No judge in his or her right mind would separate a child from their biological parent if they are, in fact, a fit parent. I don't care if Arizona comes across as more sympathetic or not, that would just never happen.

See. that's why I was shocked. I "get" why Arizona won. but I always figured in cases like this... it would go to the biological parent, unless Arizona could prove that Callie wasn't fit.and maybe that's where Callie was going for it. 

this isn't being unsympathetic for parents who are't related by blood. I've got a lot of parents of the heart too...it's just that... yeah that's something that confuses me [but i still see it]. 

honestly, if SR was contemplating leaving , i wouldnt blame her if this storyline was what pushed her out of the door.

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51 minutes ago, Catznip said:

Word!!

15 minutes ago, justmythoughts said:

I'm sorry but adoptive parents (family) is as much as a family with the same rights as biological ones, and sometimes even more (in case of full adoptions, when the biological parents give up on their kids for any reason). It would be insulting to so many families if Callie had Sophia solemnly for the fact she is her biological mom.

The law worries about the wellfare of those who cannot speak for themselves, and in the eyes of the law, adoptive or biological, it is the same thing. The judge was very correct to not make any difference.Both mothers loved Sofia, it was a question of whom could provide the most stable life for her.

Exactly. It isn't a question of bio versus adoptive. Arizona is her mom too. Period.

 

A judge would separate the child because being uprooted fotna year fornnonreason is not the best decision fornyhr child.

 

I don't know why but I'm really surprised at the amount of people that seem to think Callie had the upper hand by virtue of sharing blood. It's maddening.

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I don't really know how the legal system works in cases like this, so it's more than possible I'm entirely off the mark here, but couldn't the ruling have been conditional and that Callie would relinquish the physical custody of Sofia if she moved to NY? Because, the whole thing seems pointless if she's staying. It hasn't been established that either is an unfit parent. 

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I also think the fact that the move is temporary played a role in the judge's decision.  If she's going to be back in a year, she could just visit Penny. Or she can visit Sophia.

 

Callie is going to be moving down in her career which also means a salary drop. 

This move is solely about Callie and what she wants. Sophia's needs never entered her mind. This is a child who already lost one parent and her other parents are divorced. That's a lot for a young child to go through.

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1 hour ago, sekay87 said:

I'm sorry, but nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. The fact of the matter is, while Arizona is a parent to Sofia, Callie is the BIOLOGICAL parent, and she is 100% a fit mother. No judge in his or her right mind would separate a child from their biological parent if they are, in fact, a fit parent. I don't care if Arizona comes across as more sympathetic or not, that would just never happen.

Sooooo much. So much incorrectness here.

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1 hour ago, Catznip said:

Based on this, you seem to think Shonda has season 13 already planned with a Calzona reunion.... I don't see it happening. And after reading some of the tweets, GA is about 3 weeks out in preproduction. They don't know where the story lines are going.  I read some where that Shonda presents her thoughts on the SL to the writers and then the writers go out to create the episodes. 

I don't know. I'm just confused about the purpose of this whole storyline. It would be idiotic if after this huge mess they suddenly decided they're in love with each other again. At this point, I don't see Callie following Penny and giving up on Sofia and I most definitely do not see Penny staying. I guess it can be a starting point for a Callie/Arizona reunion in the future, but the way they handled it, it has to be distant future. And they could have easily done it without Penny.

So, what's the point? 

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(edited)

It's just a little thing but I liked Sofia's fave toy being the astronaut Barbie, it was nice continuity to season 10(?) when she wanted to be an astronaut for Halloween, I like when the writers remember little things like that. lol :)

Edited by GreysFan89
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Would love to have seen Callie's response.  Also,  "How about a neutral third party who acted as Sofia's advocate?" " In my state, if there is any suit over custody, a guardian ad litem is appointed for the child.

The family magistrate here would've ordered a best-interest attorney for Sofia.  And mediation as well.  But hey, a court hearing is sooooo much more dramatic.

Edited by proserpina65
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11 minutes ago, Joana said:

I don't know. I'm just confused about the purpose of this whole storyline. It would be idiotic if after this huge mess they suddenly decided they're in love with each other again. At this point, I don't see Callie following Penny and giving up on Sofia and I most definitely do not see Penny staying. I guess it can be a starting point for a Callie/Arizona reunion in the future, but the way they handled it, it has to be distant future. And they could have easily done it without Penny.

So, what's the point? 

Drama for the sake of ratings...

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